How *not* to write software

[DarkWolf]

Some Linux Devs can just kiss my ass.

I am trying to find some other distro to use with the current one I have not being supported no more.

All the "modern" ones just suck. I have no idea what these people are thinking.

Mepis has a dynaimc fstab file that is rewritten every boot. So every boot is a gamble wether or not it will mount all the partitions of your system. Three times it failed to mount my /home partition, even when fstab had been edited to have a static section that isn't supposed to be changed. There are problems when trying to connect to the repos for updates. You can't completely download the package list or signatures so there is no way to update your system. The Network manager (assistant, whatever) won't let you make changes to DNS servers, try and it will switch back to earlier settings.

LinuxMint had broken packages uploaded into the repos and the dumbasses, instead of taking it down, wrote a work around that could only be found online when if you installed this package your system couldn't boot. Not sure how they expect anyone to read it. Other programs were broken or didn't install right.

Ubuntu latest LTS is Shit. It's great if you don't actually plan on using your PC. They have stripped out just about every utility that let's you configure your system. About the only thing left is to change the color of your application windows. There is no useful application other than OpenOffice. Great for those peons that just check their email or post on Facebook.

PCLOS can't even be installed. The installer just froze at the stupid little magic wand graphic.

Both PC-BSD and FreeBSD has issues. PCBSD can't support USB drives. FreeBSD has configuration problems and doesn't install all the dependencies of the apps. PC-BSD can't connect to its servers for updates.

All of them can't play DVD's or support MP3 players. The latest Rhythmbox/Totem on several of these can't even play Ogg Vorbis right, when that is supposed to be Linux's little baby audio format.

These problems are the reason why I am having trouble with my existing system. Configs are rewritten when I have made changes. Different apps read different configs stored in different locations. When I tried to change the DNS servers used by my dialup connection I had to change three or four files in three different locations, cause *all* the files where changing the resolv.conf file when each app ran. Trying to use IDE's or the gcc/ld directly was impossible. They could never find the library files needed to compile, even though the packages were installed and the libraries were in the default location. Found out that ld wasn't even looking were you tell it. It will append /lib to the end of any directory path you tell where to look. Also it appends .so or .a to the end of any filename you give it.

Pulseaudio sucks and ruins the sound output of most apps. The only way to get it to work is use it as a wrapper for ALSA, so I don't know why we just don't stick with ALSA then.

If there is any error causing these problems I don't know, cause these devs didn't write their software to provide any form of feedback.

You can't build a system like this. This not how you write any program. If I wanted a system I couldn't control and would reconfigure itself I'd just stick with Windows for Christsakes.

[hutch--]

 :bg

Been there, done that. Some time ago when I had a spare box to play with I installed Ubuntu with the GUI then manually installed all of the stuff to make it a LAMP server and after some days work it was all up and going. In comparison it used to take me about an hour to install a perfect working copy of Win2000 that did everything correctly the first time. If you needed it, it was relatively easy to install the Apache software which was no big deal to configure, the database and PHP and you ended up with a better system in about 1/10 of the time.

I see Unix as a very good server and only run my web sites on Unix boxes but it has never been any joy to work on and unless you understand the ZEN of electron flow in semiconductors in a Unix box, you are in trouble getting the reference material to configure it. I am much of the view that the underside of Unix needs a serious makeover to make it usable, its Kernel seems to work fine but the command line interface is an ancient piece of crap. Slapping an idiot GUI on top of it just makes it harder to find you way around and a genuine pig to configure.

What has me stuffed is that 10 years ago you could plonk Redhat onto a box, configure it manually and do useful things with it, set it up as a server, make your own firewall box and use it to build binaries that you could use on your web sites etc .... but of late it has turned into a pseudo Windows clone without the capacity to do much that is useful.

[Twister]

I have had much success and luck with Fedora. It's backed by Red Hat, the largest Linux server distributor and open source innovator.

It's simple to use, and you can customize to your liking. I use it because I have new hardware, which is supported. (http://fedoraproject.org/)

If you are a Linux guru, it's not like Slackware, but it's not as bad as Ubuntu. Ubuntu is god awful. :snooty:

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Pulseaudio is a nice sound server application for Linux. Let's just call it an extension for ALSA. You don't have to use it; you can freely remove it with one terminal command.

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I can tell that you are not familiar with the difference between open-source and propriety.

When you buy a copy of the Windows OS, you are not only paying for the system and fancy, cool graphics, and the flashy desktop. You are also paying a portion to royalties for the codecs. The MPEG-2 Audio Layer II (or known as MP3) is a patented codec.

The thing, also, is that most open-source developers, if not all, dislike propriety, things that come at a price. It leaves a sour taste in their mouth. That is why some popular codecs (propriety codecs in this case) are not installed when you install the OS.

You can get these codecs for free from the GStreamer project (http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/)

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When you try to play OGG files, does it not play at all. You may just not have libvorbis installed. It should of been installed when you first installed the OS. I use the free, open-source applications that come with the system. Sometimes they have trouble, or a few glitches and bugs.

I also use the VLC media player (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/) to play my MP3s when Rhythmbox can't track the duration of the song correctly. I also use it to play movies and DVDs. I think it has a crispier picture from the codecs they use.

[Twister]

For you Windows users:

I can update my system and all of my software and development libraries in one swoop. :8)

[carlos]

the biggest strength of Linux is that there are thousands of distributions
the biggest weakness of Linux is that there are thousands of distributions

the quality of the distributions range from the excellent to the abysmal,  but there is a universal truth, Linux is a DIY, if you want, you could do all the installation from scratch, and learn in the process

this is the philosophy behind Linux From Scratch. it is not a "real" distribution in the sense that you download a distro, burn it in a cd\dvd, boot your pc with it, and install it in your PC. LFS is a book, who describe the steps you must follow to build a minimal Linux system, it's hard, it's  complex, its the stuff that makes an assembler programmer mouth's water.

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

there is a bootable cd in the site, but is for the 6.3 version, but it could be used for build the 6.5 LSF

Carlos

[Twister]

I learned Linux by snooping through the manuals. Nothing wrong doing it that way. :P

[DarkWolf]

LFS is just as bad.

I had 6.3 (and an earlier one) before and there is a missing step; RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING.

Some people are just morons.

Right after I had built the C libs and had to reconfigure the compiler to use them but it just kept failing. Come to find out that there were some steps between that had to be done. But in the infinite wisdom of Elitism wherein I had to be an expert before I could be a beginner; some dumbass left out those steps. So nothing could be configured right and the whole build chain breaks down. Since the information is missing from the manual I have no way of describing this problem further, only that it is *broken*.

I have no problem with the difference between open-source and proprietary. Windows is a closed-proprietary system and Linux is a open-proprietary system at best; closed-public at worst. I could get by without porprietary codecs if the open ones worked. Ogg Vorbis in recent distros does not work. Playback is choppy, static and corrupts files. Has nothing to do with whether or not the lib files is missing, IT CANNOT PLAY THEM *CORRECTLY* AT ALL. Gstreamer is just as bad as pulseaudio, still trying to figure out why it plays a 30 frame mpeg video at 15 frames a second.

And we don't need a sound server, who cares ? I am not streaming my audio files, I am sitting at the computer where I want to listen to them. And no I can't remove it. Distros packaging will not let you remove any software you don't want to use. Why else am I still stuck with that fucking Evolution shit ! I use thunderbird, always had and always will (except mozilla has being some shit); I am not allowed to remove anything without breaking the whole entire system.

VLC is horseshit.
Can't find the DVD or can't navigate through chapters and can't decode them. Absolute shit.


Manuals and documentation is incmoplete.
There is behavior and application options not described anywhere (like my problems with ld). I could read them too but I am too sick and tired of reading information that the distro has decided to change or not implement.

I don't have time to sort this shit out. I have *playing* with this crap for 5 years; I'd like to get my own work done thank you.

[Vortex]

Interestingly, I see that some experienced Ubuntu users are advicing new users to use the command line allmost whenever it's possible. For example, to get the brand of your VGA card, they will ask from you the output of a console command. In this case, what's the purpose of a graphical device manager? What's the meaning of using a distribution like Ubuntu providing a GUI? Some Linux zealots are even underestimating a lot the power of GUIs. Linux command line is a kind of religion for them.

People should always try to learn new concepts and ideas. A modern GUI makes easy the usage of an OS and this can help eliminating the struggle with an archaic command line making difficult the process of learning.

[Astro]

I totally agree! Linux really could destroy Windows overnight if they got the basics sorted out.

I also agree on the whole CLI bit - GUIs can be far superior if they are done right! There is no reason to type in a 100-character command anymore - we aren't exactly short on computing power or resources! Just about every computer shipped today can display some form of 3D graphics. There is no excuse.

[Gunner]

I totally agree! Linux really could destroy Windows overnight if they got the basics sorted out.

I also agree on the whole CLI bit - GUIs can be far superior if they are done right! There is no reason to type in a 100-character command anymore - we aren't exactly short on computing power or resources! Just about every computer shipped today can display some form of 3D graphics. There is no excuse.

I still have RH on cds from 1997...  It is now 2011 and the Linux community STILL have not gotten the basics sorted out IMO.

[Astro]

the Linux community STILL have not gotten the basics sorted out IMO.

Totally agree. If I had more time I'd be half-tempted to try what Ubuntu started, and that is to take the OS, rip it apart, take what is needed, and build a user-friendly version.

Ubuntu had a nice idea but they went astray somewhere and lost the vision.

[hutch--]

What has irked me over the last few years with Linux distributions is you either get an idiot level GUI or you get the old command line interface with irritations like SUDO where at least with the Redhat distros of 10 years ago you could plonk it in and it worked without either irritation. Windows still manages both a command line interface (CMD.EXE) and the usual GUI stuff, I wonder why the Linux guys still PHUK it up ?

The Debian influence on Ubuntu is unfortunate in that while its a robust and stable version, the assumption that you make the command line interface even harder to learn and use is counter productive and even less people try and use it. I remember long ago learning MS-DOS by endlessly playing with the command line until it all sunk in, Linux is a big enough pig as it is with its 1980 command line interface, why make it even harder to learn and use ?

Booby prize elitism seems to be the problem, a Unix based architecture is sound enough but as long as its practitioners want to practice the BITCHX mentality of "Keep it to yourself" they will continue to succeed while sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the general population to start using Linux.

[TmX]

For you Windows users:

I can update my system and all of my software and development libraries in one swoop. :8)

How? I wish Windows had package management like Linux/UNIX did.
And actually I like how development tools and libraries are integrated well in Linux creating a nice ecosystem, unlike in Windows, where you have to install MinGW, MSVC, and other libs separately.

Oh well, no system is perfect...  :P

[Farabi]

I think modern linux is bloated. Too big for a minimal functions. But its nice, I can build my own costum OS. Nice for emergency, getting rid a virus that comming into my main OS. That is why Im stick with FAT32. My linux did not support NTFS, and it is killing me if I switch the partition to NTFS. Local crackers getting good.

[DarkWolf]

There is an NTFS driver for linux but I wouldn't trust it unless I had to work with a Windows partition.

The major gripe I have is that NTFS ADS allows applications and libraries to execute code without the users knowledge or consent. Windows was designed to be NOT YOUR COMPUTER from the get go and every advance since reinforces that.

I can't stand Linux package management. Synaptic is fine until they came up with these damn "Meta" packages. Now I can't remove shit I don't want need or use cause it's a "dependency".  Linux is on crack.

It's no good when repos won't upload the newer stable releases. I am still sitting here with an older Ubuntu release cause dumbasses won't update the repos and the newer Ubuntu release is shit. Oh but they will update the packages of their friendly supporters, like Mozilla. They can't update the repo package of WINE cause it has new "Features" but you'll get the newer firefox which has been rewritten and both added and removed features. Hypocrisy

I need a CLI that integrates with a GUI.  The GUI is like the pictures in a manual that shows how the tools "should" be used. Wherein the CLI lets me use them so I can get my tasks done, my way. I can use either, if they were designed right in the first place.

Linux/Unix/BSD cannot get their philosophy out of their asses, same problem WInodws and Apple has.
It is my computer and my work I need to get done,  your beliefs do not ever enter into the picture; I could give a rat's ass what you think of your own religion.

Hell that Ubuntugeek dumbass (moderator of the ubuntu forums) had once sent me a PM "inviting" me to join socialdiscussion.org which he paraded out as some place where "opinions could be shared" on a whole slew of topics unrelated to Linux.

I promptly told him what I thought of his Social Engineering bullshit and that fast the notices that were in between each and every post on the ubuntu forums for SD where gone. Guess he caught red handed.

RedHat was one of my first exposures to Linux. It was easy to install and use but at the time out of date for the intended purpose. On the old laptop I had it installed on proved to be hard to update so I had to use something else. Which led me to Slackware, my second good exposure to Linux. But at that time I was to new to Unix and had screwed up configurations once to often cause they would let you, it was *your* computer after all.

Trying to download the latest Slackware has been an absolute pain in the ass, because the douchebags responsible for the mirrors can't keep ISOs available and the one that does is unstable and reports erroneous sizes (4GB ISO is reported as 300MB download).

I had also been playing with Mepis but that shit can't stop dicking around with my fstab and DNS settings I have no control over shit and they can't sign their fucking packages. Why ??  Only excuse is some shit about not having access to the keys.  How can the Mepis Community not have access to the keys of their own repo ??!   Dumbasses.

Linux Communities can't organize shit
Linux Communities can't implement shit
Linux Communities can't support shit.