I am left AGAIN with the lessor of TWO evils.
How can anyone with a sane mind vote for either one of these two idiots?
If they even put NADER on the ballot I will have someone not to bad
to vote for.
Again being the pessimist that I am I'm seeing the downfall of the USA
as we know it. I wouldn't be surprised if we go into a depression with
the ridiculous gas prices and the closing of the GM plants.
A panicing American
Jack,
Getting rid of Billary was a good thing, she was a corporate insider, a Washington insider and a stooge for the military industraial complex. McCain is a nutter who will continue the damage that Bush has done to the US. Obama is an unknown but at least he is not in hock to as many interests as either Billary or McCain.
I personally like Ron Paul but he could not pull enough votes.
You do not have a choice, You never did have a choice and never will have a choice on this planet. The mere idea of having a choice is an illusion and a manipulation.
No matter what you choose you are in fact doing wrong. The only thing you could correctly "chose" is to understand internally and "they" are slightly (but not much) afraid of this.
External choices are fully controlled because "they" own both parts and all other parts involved (independents etc). Do not dream... instead observe with objectivity.
Just think if Obama becomes President and Hillary becomes V-President it would be historical in the US. The very first African American President and very first Women V-President of the United States. Gotta be Rush Limbaugh's worst nightmare. :lol
Me, I really don't give a rats ass, they're all crooks!! :tdown
I think that Alfred E. Newman should run a write-in campaign, again.
Paul
Pat Paulsen for President (http://www.paulsen.com/pat/)
Even though he's dead he's still better than the rest. :green
Quote from: hutch-- on June 04, 2008, 04:31:58 PM
I personally like Ron Paul but he could not pull enough votes.
:bg sounds like an 80's porn star type name...
QuoteObama is an unknown but at least he is not in hock to as many interests as either Billary or McCain
In the news today [5/06/2008] Obama has started making clear his proposed foreign policy
- he names IRAN as America's next target as it is a "threat to International peace & stability".
Can anyone say "Here comes more oil wars again..." It seems with or without Bush, Hillary,
Obama, Mcain - America's external policy will not change in the forsee-able future.
I have a theory about this that might make me subject to assassination or at the very least
a "terror suspect" - subject to incarceration and torture without trial or litigation. :wink
The more things change - the more the stay the same.
Draakie
PS: Should'nt all this be in the Soap Box...?
Maybe the Independents should run a candidate.
Probably to late now though.
I apologize if this is in the wrong forum.
JPS
Hmm... yes the U.S. has been in debacle after debacle for awhile now. Like Bogdan said, in a way the U.S. people don't really have a choice. Their votes do count, somewhere, in some parallel universe their votes somehow
must count, however the entire system is already rigged into only having a few cherry-picked "candidates." This is exactly why I feel there needs to be a major constitutional change, not just an ammendment, which completely eliminates the concept of "political party" and their "left/right" and "conservative/liberal" stereotype and brings in the ability for anyone (meeting requirements), to run for office and have a chance at the presidency. People always complain about the candidates available... if this is the problem, allow more candidates! Have 20 to choose from... and in the event of a tie, the tied contenders should have to enter a sudden-death game of "which president is better at handling emergency situations?" Of course, if I had my way, any candidate would be subject to this gameshow, simply because I do not ever want to see another president act as childish and immature as Bush did on September 11th when he sat in the classroom, pretending nothing was going on. <Grrrr...>
For instance, far too many people in this country vote Republican SOLELY because Republicans are pro-life (meaning, against abortion.) My state, Ohio, mostly full of corn fields and cattle pastures, as a whole votes Republican even though the majority of the workforce here is lower-to-middle-class (farmers, laborers, customer service, etc.) Knowingly or not, this is an incredibly dumb thing for these voters to do, as these people in turn suffer economically as the Republicans continue to funnel our nation's currency... indeed, value... into a never-ending sink-hole. Several people I talked to said they didn't even care what the republican agenda was, their religion simply forbade abortion therefore they picked the first Republican on the ballot.
WTF??? WTH???
[/b][/i][/color][/size]
As for Obama, he kind-of reminds me of Kennedy. While Kennedy had his quirks, he too was a little "green" but ended up being one of this nation's best presidents. I've listened at-length to Billary's campaign, and while I appreciate her motivation (read: she sounds like she can be a real bitch), I just think Obama excercises more tact and diplomacy in all manners of conversation, which is a refreshing change from our current gun-toting "Texan" president. That and, most of Billary's "sweeping changes" would have been shot down by Republicans anyways.
So as usual, the system is fundamentally flawed and is stuck in an infinite loop. Anyone mind pressing the reset button? :U
I'm all for Obama! He reminds me of John Kennedy too. He also reminds of Martin Luther King. What happened to both of them? God I hope he can avoid getting shot, which is what seems to happen all too frequently in this country when a liberal gets too much power for the conservative's tastes. I was glad to see all the security guys around him at his last speech.
Obama!
[/size]
QuoteSo as usual, the system is fundamentally flawed and is stuck in an infinite loop. Anyone mind pressing the reset button?
The system is as the politicians and special-interest groups collectively want it to be, and there is by design no reset button.
Quote from: MichaelW on June 05, 2008, 11:46:48 PM
QuoteSo as usual, the system is fundamentally flawed and is stuck in an infinite loop. Anyone mind pressing the reset button?
The system is as the politicians and special-interest groups collectively want it to be, and there is by design no reset button.
No reset button I'm not sure... but it is unfortunately deeply hidden in the collective soul.
I am very afraid of Obama's background and affilliations.
In my opinion he should never have been elected for the Senate
let alone for the Presidency.
Be that as it may we all know they are just puppets for
the corporations anyway.
God help America.
Quote from: Mark Jones on June 05, 2008, 01:24:12 PM
Anyone mind pressing the reset button? :U
Yikes, re-reading that, it sounds rather criminal! What I meant was, the whole system needs an FDISK and FORMAT. Hmm, lets not read into that too much, heheh.
Maybe I'm missing something - no-one thinks "The like-able 'Kennedy type' Obama" is
just another war monger with ill intent for "enemy" (has oil) nations. How many have
to die - so America can have it's 1st world life style - pseudo freedoms & white picket
fence included. The world is a sick place - where morality and truth is optional - seesh
I wish the truth could set us free .... truely free.
Draakie
This analogy about Obama was so apropos that I just had to post it.
The logic of it made a lot of sense to me.
Enjoy,
jps
(The post turtle)
While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old Texas rancher whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Obama and his bid to be our President.
The old rancher said, 'Well, ya know, Obama is a 'post turtle'. Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'post turtle' was. The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.
The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain. 'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he is up there, and you just wonder what kind of a dumbass put him up there to begin with.'
http://www.rense.com/general80/obmw.htm
Obama is a freemason ???!!!
Quote from: Draakie on June 18, 2008, 08:05:39 AM
http://www.rense.com/general80/obmw.htm
Obama is a freemason ???!!!
That site also says he is a cousin to Cheney and Bush! Incredible!
DISSING COUSINS: OBAMA, CHENEY, BUSH RELATED (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10172007/news/regionalnews/dissing_cousins__obama__cheney.htm)
Obama's camp made light of the family ties. "Every family has a black sheep," said spokeswoman Jen Psaki, with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
The Chicago Sun-Times revealed the genealogical link in early September, claiming that the shared ancestors were Mareen and Susannah Duvall, 17th century immigrants from France.
The newspaper, however, claimed that the senator from Illinois and the vice president were 11th cousins.
The Duvalls are Obama's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, and Cheney's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, the paper said.
George W. Bush and Obama, meanwhile, are 10th cousins once removed - linked through a 17th century Massachusetts couple, Samuel Hinckley and Sarah Soole, according to the Sun-Times.
(as for myself, some people say I resemble Jesus a lot, with my sandals and the beard and the grim look...!)
From the official Democrats website.
http://www.democrats.org/page/community/post/TheFixer/CJZ9/commentary
YUP he is a freemason of high order........ thus...... erm......< :eek>
did u know he also serves on the armed services comission......
I think this talk of "CHANGE" is hogwash - conspiracy theorists may have had it right
then, "NEW WORLD ORDER" here we come.
Quote from: Draakie on June 18, 2008, 09:05:40 AM
From the official Democrats website.
http://www.democrats.org/page/community/post/TheFixer/CJZ9/commentary
YUP he is a freemason of high order........ thus...... erm......< :eek>
did u know he also serves on the armed services comission......
I think this talk of "CHANGE" is hogwash - conspiracy theorists may have had it right
then, "NEW WORLD ORDER" here we come.
Ron Paul reveils more secrets: Obama isn't really black! (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/37908)
Itas an interesting situation in the US at the moment in that Obama has the chance to be the next FDR producing a "New Deal" for Americans who are doing it tough at the moment. After 8 years of blatant rape and pillage of the US economy, the decay of its infrastructure and the assault on the savings and retirement funding of American citizens, either some one fixes it or the current trend of the international community will fix it for them.
Stopping the leakage of jobs offshore, plugging the immigration flooding from south of the border and reconstructing the US economy and industry are all highly necessary to reverse the trend that has done so much damage to American society and to the American economy. The losers will be those corporations that moved offshore to avoid US taxes and a multitude of other foreign owned multinational corporations that have all fed like parasites of the savings of ordinary Americans.
Perhaps its time for the goose that laid the golden egg to look after itself before too much more damage is done. Just hope that those in the US who are patriots can succeed in stopping Bush and Cheney from starting a war with Iran as their exit strategy.
You said it all Hutch.
It is a dismal scene we are facing here.
Our so called free elections are a sham.
The people don't elect politicians anymore, the corporations give us a choice
between their two picks.
Like I have said before our entire congress needs to be tried for TREASON.
Obama scares me to death.
JPS
QuoteObama scares me to death.
Why does he frighten you so, because he's young, black and a liberal?
Personally I don't know what to think. McCain was tortured for many years as a prisoner of war is very old and has quite the temper. Obama other then being young I just haven't figured out yet. He's one heck of a speaker and I like that. Listening to McCain or bush speak makes my head hurt.
On the other hand anyone would be better then bush and his cronies the last eight years. :tdown
Hi Cycle Saddles,
Don't get me wrong. I can't stand McCain either. He's to old
and will give more of the same crap that bush gave us.
He also is a free trader and by this time an Idiot could tell
what that is doing to my country.
History tells us that all countries fail in about 2 centuries +. I
see the end of the U.S. as I knew it.
Perot now has a web site and more charts and what they
show does not portend good news for the country going
the way it is going.
I would love to be wrong.....
QuoteHistory tells us that all countries fail in about 2 centuries +.
QuoteI would love to be wrong.....
shankle,
My fear is you are right. :(
McCain would just be more of the same crap that we got from Bush.
The shit is really hitting the fan here in the U.S., and I'm afraid it's just going to get worse. I'm reading the book The Long Emergency: Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-first Century (http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Long+Emergency&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) (2005), everything this guy said would happen is happening now. You all should read it.
The author's blog Clusterfuck Nation (http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/)
Just out of curiosity, how are gas and food prices looking in the rest of the world?
Quote from: Greg on June 26, 2008, 12:37:13 AM
Just out of curiosity, how are gas and food prices looking in the rest of the world?
Europe imports gas at the same prices as the U.S., but we are shielded by the weak dollar. In addition, gas taxes have always been high, around 75% of the retail price (our roads are financed through gas taxes); which implies that if a liter costs one unit for the OPEC and three units for maintaining the roads, and you double the cheque to the OPEC, it means (2+3)/(1+3)=1.25, i.e. an increase of only 25%, which is hardly something to worry about. I guess U.S. car drivers are in a deep crisis now. Even before, they paid more on fuel than the Europeans did - not per gallon, of course, but if you take a low price per gallon and multiply it with a gaz guzzler's consumption and loooong distances, you end up at the same yearly fuel bill.
3rd world perspective....
South Africa is suffering from the strong dollar although we produce 1/3 our fuel needs from coil. Governmental tax +
high dollar based oil price has pushed the per litre price of petrol (gas) to R 10.40 (+/- $ 1.38 ). Food prices have sky
rocketed as a result (up 40% from 2007). Meat prices are at a all time high. Inflation is rising alarmingly. All and all a very
bad situation for the consumer. Realestate prices have dropped by 35% from 2006. Credit is almost unaffordable at a
prime repo rate of 16% (the rate at which the reserve bank lends money to major banks). Unemployment is at a
staggering 40% and rising. Poverty index is rising by 2% per quater. 2010 Soccer World Cup stadium costs are soaring
into budget overruns into the billions of rands.
When the world economy sneezes - Africa has serious influenza. Couple this with Zimbabwe and you have a
recipe for disaster.
Draakie
Quote from: Draakie on June 26, 2008, 07:03:05 AM
3rd world perspective....
per litre price of petrol (gas) to R 10.40 (+/- $ 1.38 ). Food prices have sky rocketed as a result
Hmmm.... your cows drink petrol? Seriously: Thank your government that they do tax fuel. This generates revenue for roads, schools, hospitals, and it pushes consumption down, thus lowering your dependance from the OPEC. By the way: Here in Europe gas costs 2.16 per litre, or exactly 9 US$ per gallon. We do have angry car drivers but we do
not have a problem, because as mentioned above, the relative increase was small, and our economies have had many decades for adapting to high fuel prices. Our cars consume a lot less, and we have a well-developed public transport system. Guess why General Motors never exported U.S. cars to Europe...
Quote
Couple this with Zimbabwe and you have a recipe for disaster.
I hope nobody mistakes me for a fan of George doubleU, but in one point I share his views: The African disease is bad governance, i.e. greedy and corrupt government cliques. And the donor community is working hard to keep this system alive (attention: IRONY!!).
In my humble opinion this is the Year for the "PROTEST VOTE"!
There should be a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" box on every office
that is presented.
When I hear the phrase "YOU'RE THROWING YOUR VOTE AWAY",
the proper response to that is how can any sane person continue to
vote for the Idiots presented when we are losing our country by
continuing to support Democrats/Republicans.
What makes anyone of you think that they would not steal the elections as it was done in the last 2?
3 choices.
1. Stay in your world of fantasy and believe that politicians represent you. (They dont, they represent whoever gives them money.)
2. Give up and just live your life realizing that the game is rigged and your vote does not count.
3. Unite, organize and fight back.
Democracy has a mortal flaw, the vote of the informed have the same weight as the vote of the uninformed. As only a fool will make a uninformed decision and most people are uninformed, the result of democracy is almost always foolishness. The only exception is when the informed have spend time and explain the uninformed in the hopes that they do not buy the BS that the politicians say.
The media is already being bought and paid for. So the only options is the people itself. It people does not organize and fight, this country will go down the drain an will try to take the world with it. If you throw a frog into boiling water, it will jump out of it. But if you put the frog into water, and slowly raise the temperature, the frog will cook alive. This country has being deal like the frog. Instead of taking all our civil liberties at once, they are doing it slowly and making us believe they are doing it for our own well. Heck, there are even sheep that praises when there are less lliberties.
Just see the words of Thomas Jefferson and compare with the words of todays people:
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html
My favorite is: "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
That comes from a man that was president of the USA.
Hi Xanatose,
I agree with you completely, especially where you say that they are taking our freedoms
away slowly. The fools out there don't even realize what's happening and probably
could care less until they can no longer get a job and gasoline is $25+ a gallon.
As a side, have you heard of the huge oil reserves in the Dakotas and under the rocky mountains?
They are larger than what's in the Arab countries. I wonder how long before we can start to
use some of it?
Protest vote and put all in Congress on trial for treson.
QuoteAs a side, have you heard of the huge oil reserves in the Dakotas and under the rocky mountains?
They are larger than what's in the Arab countries. I wonder how long before we can start to
use some of it?
It's a huge load of BS. It's oil shale, it's very costly to extract oil from it and you have to destroy the countryside to get it. :tdown :tdown
I agree with this article, Kicking the habit: Headlong rush to oil shale won't end energy woes (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_9768198)
Hi Greg,
I didn't know about the article you posted. From it, it seems that more research
is needed.
Just goes to show that a lot of stuff on the internet can't be trusted.
I would be interested in your opinion of the article.
Here is where I got my info from:
-------------------
Could this extend into Nebraska too?
Subject: Oil in the Dakotas and Montana
WHO KNEW????
THIS WILL AMAZE YOU !
Subject: Got to read this one
Ever heard of the Bakken Formation? GOOGLE it. I did, and
again, BLEW my mind. The U.S. Geological Service issued a
report in April ('08) that only scientists and
oilmen/women knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a
revised report (hadn't been updated since '95) on
how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North
Dakota; western South Dakota; and extreme eastern Montana
... Check THIS out:
The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since
Alaska's Prudhoe Bay, and has the potential to
eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The
Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503
billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is
recoverable... At $107 a barrel, we're looking at a
resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion. 'When I
first briefed legislators on this, you could practically
see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.' says
Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial
analyst. 'This sizeable find is now the
highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56
years,' reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a
formation known as the Williston Basin, but is more commonly
referred to as the 'Bakken.' And it stretches from
Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada.
For years, U.S. Oil exploration has been considered a dead
end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching
for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent
technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's
massive reserves... And we now have access of up to 500
billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil,
those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER
BARREL!
That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy
for 41 years straight.
2. [And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then
this next one should - because it's from TWO YEARS AGO,
people!]
U.S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World!
Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006
Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky
Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the
world is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005
President Bush mandated its extraction.
[(???) What the!??]
They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside
our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth.
Here are the official estimates:
-8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
-18-times as much oil as Iraq
-21-times as much oil as Kuwait
-22-times as much oil as Iran
-500-times as much oil as Yemen - and it's all right
here in the Western United States.
[HOW can this BE!? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this!?
Because we've not D E M A N D E D Legislation to come
out of Washington allowing its extraction, that's why!]
James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've
got more oil in this very compact area than the entire
Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION barrels. Untapped.
That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude
oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.
----
Don't think 'Big Oil' will drop its price -
even with this find? Think again! It's all about the
competitive marketplace, and if they can extract it (here)
for less, they can afford to sell it for less - and if they
DON'T, others will. It will come down - it has to.
----
[Got your attention/ire up yet? Hope so! Now, while
you're thinking about it ... And hopefully P.O'd,
do this:
3. Take 5-10 minutes and compose an e-mail; fax or good
old-fashioned letter to our elected officials in Washington
... And their respected leaders. We'll start with them,
and here's how you can send them your e-mail/fax,
DEMANDING the immediate Legislation/an Energy PLAN that
calls for tapping into these (OUR OWN!) Reserves, as well
as allowing for the offshore drilling for OUR oil, in OUR
offshore waters and Inter-continental shelf .. Not to
mention Alaska. Technology ain't what it used to be
people (ever had arthroscopic surgery?). They can
surgically extract OUR oil, and get us on the way to at
least some measure of Energy independence.
You don't take a little time to do this, then you
should stifle yourself the next time you want to complain
about gas prices ... Because by doing NOTHING, you've
forfeited your right to complain.
Use the following link to contact your representatives.
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
Quote from: shankle on July 04, 2008, 08:04:32 PM
Ever heard of the Bakken Formation?
Fantastic indeed. Read this (http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3868). Read it carefully, and read it all.
Hi jj2007,
Thanks for a very informative article, although depressing.
That shoots it for the U.S.
Maybe we'll have hydrogen cars in 20 years.