The United States of America where. . .

[Bill Cravener]

The middle class is dead.

Unemployment is at 9.6 percent.

1 of every 7 Americans now lives in poverty.

1 out of every 3 Americans has high blood pressure.

Over 50 million Americans have no health care.

Illegal drug use is up to record levels.

Corporate greed controls the government.

Religious fanatics are everywhere.

Guns kill people one innocent bystander at a time.

Other then the above troubles, it's a great place to live. . . :bg

[clive]

Unemployment is at 9.6 percent.

It's higher than that, but the government (be it US or UK) simply won't report the true scale, the numbers are ugly. The numbers are also higher in certain regions. The IRS could probably give us more accurate numbers in the year-over-year drop in employee tax receipts. The numbers from payroll processors like ADP would also be more believable.

It's going to get worse. There has been no "recovery", I wouldn't characterize it as a double-dip either, because it hasn't gone up. Cars and houses aren't selling to any real extent, and manufactures are building to order, and holding no stock. Lead times for electronic components is pushing 16-25 weeks.

Over 50 million Americans have no health care.

They don't have Health Insurance, they do have access to Health Care. There is a picture of America that people paint that suggest you'll pretty much be left to die by the road, but emergency departments are required to treat all comers, and frankly charge the people actually paying for services more, so they can treat those that don't. The services might be at a different level than those who are insured, but there have been enough law suits if they don't provide reasonable care, that they aren't going to leave you to die. You are actually likely to get better care in the US, and have access to CAT and MRI scans, than you are in the UK where things are "free".

[oex]

The United Complete States Of America :lol

.... Yeah the 51st States are just as bad :bg

[Bill Cravener]

There is a picture of America that people paint that suggest you'll pretty much be left to die by the road. . .

Yep, its true, people do die here in the states everyday from lack of "health care".

I knew a good follow that had a couple small sores, one on his leg another on his back that would not heal. I suggested that he see a doctor but the gentleman stated he had no "health insurance" and being unemployed was in no position to pay doctor bills. Several years later he became ill and had to be admitted to the "emergency room" but it was too late. It was found that he had melanoma that had spread to other parts of his body. He died one year later.

This happens all the time here in the states. This should not happen to anyone in this country but it does too frequently.

Here's another case in point.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/opinion/11krugman.html

I'm self-employed, been so most of my life. I'll soon turn 60 and though I'm in good health and take care of myself it costs me some $1200 bucks a month for "health insurance" with a high deductible. Only in America!! :tdown

[clive]

The premiums would be less if everyone was buying insurance and the pool was larger, in the manner of the Romney and Obama types of mandated coverage.

Still in the UK and Canada, health care is not magically free. It's paid for with higher taxes on everything, and value added taxes, and it's not particularly good, and access to doctors and dentists is hardly easy or timely.


Then, even access to health care for "free" doesn't help in a great many cases because the availability of high end diagnostics is limited and rationed. General practice doctors are overloaded.

As a counter point to your friends cancer experience:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3135295/Docs-miss-cancer-20-times.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3130207/Cancer-missed-by-11-doctors.html

These are just two example from the last week or so, I think you'll find these kind of blow-off diagnosis, and lack of follow up are the rule not the exception. Having lived 20+ years in the UK, and nearly 20 in the US, I think your odds of surviving in the US are far superior.

People die everywhere, everyday. You'll find that lackluster health care, is only marginally better than no health care, unless the doctors actually care about the outcome you're pretty well screwed.

[jj2007]

I think your odds of surviving in the US are far superior.

Code Select Expand

Average life expectancy
USA 78 years
UK 79
Italy 80

[clive]

Your chances of dieing of cancer are less in the US vs the UK
http://rex.nci.nih.gov/NCI_Pub_Interface/raterisk/rates39.html

Then again if your doctors never figure it out, perhaps it's hard to attribute your death to a specific cause.

I'm also not sure that age at death tells you much. Countries with low numbers tend to have high infant mortality. And the US has a lower driving age than the UK, and a lot more of them drive, in faster more powerful cars, which kills a lot of teenagers. Access to health care doesn't help much when you nail a pole/tree/classmate at 60+ mph

[GregL]

I've got to agree things are looking pretty bad in the U.S.A. Just about every city is having major budget problems. Police departments are underfunded. Public Schools are having major budget problems. National, State and City parks are having major budget problems. Public Libraries are having major budget problems. Health care for the disabled is being cut way back, if not eliminated. Most of the improvements in health care President Obama made are not in effect yet.  The Republicans and Tea Party want to repeal the health care improvements that were just made. They also want to repeal Wall Street Reform. In other words they want to finish off the terrible damages George W. Bush and friends made to our country. And unfortunately a lot of Americans are supporting them.

[oex]

I used to be proud to live here.  Now it sucks to live in the USA. Thats saying something !

The sad thing is the USA is meant to be the best place in the world to live in with abundent resources and political and religious freedoms.... With 6 billion people in the world you would think the combined intelligence would have us all living harmonious lives....

[BogdanOntanu]

It is not a problem with US or any other country...

It is the problem of a social/economical/political and conceptual system based on greed and communities that is failing.

There are only 2 options:
a) continue as it is and face a very long and deep depression that will get worst and then an global war to "fix" it
b) change the essence of our race social organization as a whole species ( remove greed, competition and communities / groups of people )

US is just a piece of the puzzle but the same thing is happening almost everywhere all over the world.

IMHO we will choose option a) and suffer extinction sooner or later ;)

Hence do not be so centered on/about US... I do not think a better situation in US would make a real differences in the long run... it would just delay things for a while :D

[MichaelW]

I knew a good follow that had a couple small sores, one on his leg another on his back that would not heal. I suggested that he see a doctor but the gentleman stated he had no "health insurance" and being unemployed was in no position to pay doctor bills. Several years later he became ill and had to be admitted to the "emergency room" but it was too late. It was found that he had melanoma that had spread to other parts of his body. He died one year later.

My interpretation of this is that he made a choice to not seek care for his problem. Whether his reason for that choice was ignorance of how the system works, or an insistence on always paying his way, or a lack of interest in continuing his life, or whatever, it was his choice.

[GregL]

Bogdan,

I agree, the same or worse problems are everywhere in the world. I also tend to agree with your assessment. It's just the topic of the thread is ...

[hutch--]

I was born in a strange and exotic country, it was called the "Commonwealth Of Australia" where funny old fashioned ideas like universal health care abounded, people actually thought they had a responsibility to others and it was something like a society, just goes to prove its a sign of age that I remember that far back.

Long stretches of conservative governments tried to destroy much of it and in fact succeeded in many things but they were never game to try and fully dismantle the health care system which survives in reasonable form. While our current government is committed to the health care system, the opposition sit in the wings willing to destroy it again and as usual its done on the basis of costing. Give the entire economy a good PHUKING then claim we cannot afford to provide health care.

Solution is to be healthy, if you need medical treatment, get in and out of hospital like a rocket, minimise your dependence of medications and don't knock yourself around.

[Bill Cravener]

My interpretation of this is that he made a choice to not seek care for his problem. Whether his reason for that choice was ignorance of how the system works, or an insistence on always paying his way, or a lack of interest in continuing his life, or whatever, it was his choice.

I know of a woman who had to quit her job after being diagnosed with lupus and consequently lost her health insurance coverage. She promptly enrolled in Medicaid and then shortly lost her coverage because of budget reductions to the program. She resisted going to the hospital emergency room when her symptoms worsened because of fear of high medical bills that she could never pay but soon had to be rushed there anyway when she had a seizure. She died just a few months later from not attending to her symptoms until it was too late.

Many millions of sick ailing Americans who are proud honest folks do not wish to burden others with their medical bills and resist treatment until it's just too late. I've seen it happen too many times and I'd be inclined to do the same. You see I to I'm proud and would not want to pass off my medical bills onto others, I'd rather die first.

It shouldn't be this way in a country that claims to be the "greatest country in the world". It really says something about us as a society when we allow profit to dictate the quality of health care. I know of retired folks who are on Medicare with limited income who are on very expensive medication that would rather go without the drugs so they can at the least feed themselves.

We have become a nation where profit and greed is more important then the health and will-being of its people. If I were a younger man I'd be moving to Australia or Canada where they have more concern for the health of their citizens. All of the negative things we have become in America have a single root cause, greed!

[rags]

Bill,
     Since when is NOT wanting to pay through the arse in federal income taxes,
for others to receive medical insurance, a bad thing?
It doesn't matter who I work for, I still don't want to,
nor do I believe it is constitutional to require me to purchase,
or pay for someone else's health care insurance.

It really says something about us as a society when we allow profit to dictate the quality of health care.

Do you work for free Bill?
I doubt it. You have bills to pay, food, etc.
Why shouldn't a company be allowed to recoup its cost of research and return a profit?

Or just because it is a medical related company,
are they required not to make a profit, but to just break even?

Where would the incentive be to find more cures and new treatments ?