Tragedy in Norway

[hutch--]

I wonder how long it will take to learn that no society no matter how many anti-gun laws it has can protect that society without having armed security available ? We have had this in OZ, it has happened in the US, UK and now Norway. One armed security person could have stopped this carnage of a single armed lunatic killing so many people.

[Bill Cravener]

Real shame, at least 80 dead by what Norwegians say is a right-winger with anti-Muslim views. I'm surprised some of the far right nuts we have in this country haven't done something similar. Some of them rightwing gun lovers have enough arms to start a war of there own if they had a mind to. There were 13,636 murders in the US for the year 2009. Of those 9,146 were caused by firearms. When crazy people have easy access to guns there will be nut cases killing people with them.

[zemtex]

The prime minister of Norway was very clear that the last thing they wanted to do after this incident, is to reduce freedom and tighten control then he finished off by saying that is a landmark of Norway. He did not want to ruin that landmark in any way whatsoever, instead he referred to punishing those responsible, not punishing the nation.

[oex]

I wonder how long it will take to learn that no society no matter how many anti-gun laws it has can protect that society without having armed security available ? We have had this in OZ, it has happened in the US, UK and now Norway. One armed security person could have stopped this carnage of a single armed lunatic killing so many people.

So how many people with guns?

700 kids....

So maybe 7 armed security? So that if 3 are evil mass murderers in disguise they are outnumbered....?

This guy was dressed as a police officer I think.... Generally these terrorism issues, they tend to dress to the part *and have the guns*.... On an island that size you would need many many people with guns to prevent such a tradegy....

If you give so many people guns then each gun, gun training is another chance to kill, there or anywhere....

Remember this guy was dressed as a police officer.... When the other armed security comes near he only needs to point at one of the kids as if they are the gunman then shoot the real security guard.... Much better would have been proper searches for knives, guns, proper role keeping and monitoring who was who etc....

[Bill Cravener]

He did not want to ruin that landmark in any way whatsoever, instead he referred to punishing those responsible, not punishing the nation.

Nuts jobs like that don't give a rats ass about being punished. Over 80 people dead because some nut case found it easy to get guns. There has to be a better way. It should not be so easy like it is in the US for crazy fanatical morons to get a hold of guns period!

[zemtex]

Nuts jobs like that don't give a rats ass about being punished. Over 80 people dead because some nut case found it easy to get guns. There has to be a better way. It should not be so easy like it is in the US for crazy fanatical morons to get a hold of guns period!

This guy is a right wing extremist. His friends told the media he posted quite alot of controversial texts on his facebook profile. The people he killed was all social democrats. Death toll has been increased to 92. 85 shot dead, 7 dead in the blast and another 90 hospitalized after the blast. He had quite alot of ammunition and weaponry reserves, he shot each person twice to make sure they were really dead. There can be no doubt that he had in mind to kill all social democrats on that island. When he came there, he wanted all people to gather, they had no idea why of course. Just amazing how much damage that man did

Pay attention that "Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami" claimed responsibility for the bombing in Oslo.  :lol and they did not, it is already confirmed an ethnic norwegian did it solely for political reasons of his own. Many terrorists group lie about this, it is no surprise to me, they want to be given more credit than deserved.

Every time there is a bombing, some terror organization claim responsibility, automatically.

[hutch--]

There is something fundamentally obvious about this recurring problem, one person gets a gun and goes and murders a large number of people simply because they can do it with no-one to stop them. it would take only one armed guard to stop them yet with this idiological burden that is foolish enough to think that you can wholly remove guns from the whole world that it can be stopped that way.

It is simply a matter of fact that gun will never be removed from the world and even with draconian anti-gun laws that many countries have, loonies get guns and shoot innocent people. Look at who lines up in the anti-gun supporters, Hitler did it, Mussolini did it, Stalin did it and in fact almost every dictator who wanted to control their country by fear and force did it yet the country with the lowest firearm murder rate is Switzerland where firearm ownership is very high.

The problem is in fact a simple one, when it easy to get a gun and where there is no resistance from unarmed people, this style of massacre will simply continue until governments stop being negligent and start protecting their own people. A loonie will think twice before busting into a place where they will get shot for trying to shoot other people. We don't see deranged gunmen busting into an army camp where there is already massive firepower and you don't see them trying to commit a massacre in a police station where there are many well armed people, they are cowards that commit their massacres in supermarkets, schools and other places where the victims cannot defend themselves.

The solution is simple, it takes one bullet to solve the problem from one armed security person and massacres of this type will end.

[Magnum]

In Texas, we have a right-to-carry law.

Problem is that most places outlaw carrying a gun even with the license.

Like you said, one responsible person with a gun would have finished him off early on.

[zemtex]

It might have helped if somebody had a gun and the right to shoot, but pre-planning exist for a reason. Terrorists take precaution and switch methods. Nothing really helps if a man wants to harm people. The only thing that will change is that everyone carries a gun and we have another tombstone society where everybody becomes cautious killers.  :wink

The guy from Oslo had a license, he owned a glock, another gun and a shotgun. The bomb was probably ammonium nitrate bomb, he owned a geo farm and he could gain access to that sort of material. It is the same type used in oklahoma city in 1995.

[MichaelW]

Nothing really helps if a man wants to harm people.

For almost every one of these massacres one armed and competent person could have prevented many deaths.

What I think is needed is some type of non-lethal weapon with the stopping power of a gun, and that anyone can carry.

[Bill Cravener]

So I guess that's what we as a 21st century civilization must come to, that is we all must be armed at all times in order that someone can stop a loony before he kills other people. We just have to hope that all persons carrying are trained enough in the use of a weapon and are able to shot straight and not kill any innocents. I can just see it, you're in a crowd of people all carrying when some nut case who is also carrying starts firing randomly and then all hell breaks loose when everyone else starts firing back. Yes, that makes sense. I know I'd feel safer!

[dedndave]

you guys all look to guns for a solution
the real solution is to remove the motivation, not the method
that is because the method has been there since before Cain killed Abel

now, i don't pretend to have that solution, but at least we're pointed in the right direction

[Bill Cravener]

you guys all look to guns for a solution
the real solution is to remove the motivation, not the method

I agree with you Dave. The thought of so many people being armed to me is frightening. Its just too damn easy for folks to buy guns here in the US. Hear in PA you must take drivers training before taking a drivers test and we all can agree that an automobile is a deadly weapon. Why is it we can't make it mandatory that you must be trained and pass a test before one can buy a hand gun and make that person responsible for the care of that weapon and face the responsibility for the theft of that weapon?

[Bill Cravener]

When you give it any thought this loony was dressed as an officer. Now lets say there was a security guard there I bet the first thing that nut would have done was to walk up to that security guy and blow his brains out first thing.

I just wonder, you guys who think we should all be armed have you ever even fired a weapon before? For that matter have you ever kill a living thing with one? I doubt it!

[dedndave]

even more unfortunate that we cannot license people to become part of society
"you can't leave your house without a license to do so" - lol
this is the real issue, here
and, it's the real issue for terrorism, in general
people do what they do for a reason
it's the reason that we need to work on

much like drug abuse or illegal immigration
you see how far we have gotten by combating these problems with our current methods