I come from mainframe IBM/360

[jj2007]

Why limit yourself to one language? I like to program in several languages, including PowerBASIC, C, C++, C#, PowerShell.
... I would have to say MASM is my favorite though.

I have programmed in several languages, starting with Fortran, ZX Spectrum BASIC, then GfaBasic and 68k assembler on Atari ST, Unix shell scripts, VB, JavaScript & DHTML, ... but I get strong allergic reactions when I see too many brackets around, so C is not on my list and will never be.

And yes, Masm is my favourite right now, because it's incredibly powerful and flexible and does not produce bloatware.

As to PowerBasic, I tested it but gave up when I saw that the compiler was ten times or so slower than my good ol' Gfabasic.

[hutch--]

 :bg

> Since there's no evidence supplied ...

I wonder what would qualify as evidence ?

When was the milionth download ? about 9 years ago. I don't count it any more

How long has the masm32 project been going ? Just over 10 years.

How many newbies have I dealt with over that period of time ? Dunno, I lost count.

Where do I get the idea of what succeeds and what does not ? From the number of newbies over that time period.

The market is well served with bare bones assemblers, why does MASM hold such a large market share ? Dunno, ask the newbies.  :bg

[jj2007]

The market is well served with bare bones assemblers, why does MASM hold such a large market share ? Dunno, ask the newbies.  :bg

Watch your step, old man! Japheth's JWasm is advancing rapidly. For longer projects it's perhaps a bit slow, and my macros are a bit too complex for JWasm, but for newbies with small projects and no macros you are facing serious competition  :green

[hutch--]

I have made no criticism of Japheth's assembler. I am of the view that anyone who can resurrect WASM from the dead has done a lot of good work.

We differ on a notion that throwing learners into bare bones assemblers is useful, from 10 years of maintaining the masm32 project I have good reason to see it otherwise.

It has been my experience that people who use all of the high level simulations learn faster, write a lot more successful code and get to understand proper low level code reasonably quickly where people who get conned into the alternative more often than not get pissed off with bashing their heads against the wall and go and write VB or PHP or something really different.

[japheth]

Watch your step, old man! Japheth's JWasm is advancing rapidly. For longer projects it's perhaps a bit slow, and my macros are a bit too complex for JWasm, but for newbies with small projects and no macros you are facing serious competition  :green

As far as speed is concerned, there is indeed good reason for Masm to fear JWasm. Not the current v1.8 - I released it just yesterday - but the coming version. The original Wasm was utterly slow, initially one of my projects needed 12,000 ms  for a compile. For the final JWasm 1.7, it was reduced to about 5.000 ms, with JWasm 1.8 it is about 3.000 ms now. For JWasm 1.9, it will be about 1.000-1.250.

How is this achieved?

- for JWasm 1.7, the speed boost was achieved a) by increasing the hash table size significantly and b) by exchanging the memory allocation/deallocation routines.
- for JWasm 1.8, the speed boost was achieved by reducing the number of passes with a better management of forward references.

The strategy for the next speed boost is simple: avoid to scan the full source for every pass, instead just scan the - preprocessed - source from the position the first byte has been emitted. This will bring JWasm into the very same league with FASM, and Masm will be left behind as a lame duck  :green .

[jj2007]

I have made no criticism of Japheth's assembler. I am of the view that anyone who can resurrect WASM from the dead has done a lot of good work.

I agree fully - he does a brilliant job. I just don't like the "boring Powerbasic" attitude; but it's probably mutual. C programmers believe that Basic code consists of GOTO's, while Basic programmers think that {C} programmers are a [bunch of] ->nerds with {Repetitive Stress Injury} and {no sense} of ->humour.

people who use all of the high level simulations learn faster, write a lot more successful code and get to understand proper low level code reasonably quickly where people who get conned into the alternative more often than not get pissed off with bashing their heads against the wall and go and write VB or PHP or something really different.

Exactly. I'd like to add that those who know how to write macros and prefer typing the same boring stuff over and over again are commonly called masochists.

[japheth]

:bg

When was the milionth download ? about 9 years ago. I don't count it any more

How long has the masm32 project been going ? Just over 10 years.

How many newbies have I dealt with over that period of time ? Dunno, I lost count.

Where do I get the idea of what succeeds and what does not ? From the number of newbies over that time period.

Thanks for providing some backup for my theory, Hutch--!  Because, if there were so many downloads and if there were so many noobies dealing with Masm32, then why is/was the general usage of ASM so declining, why are so many noobies just here for some weeks and then quickly abandon ASM again and last, why is Masm's market share not rising anymore, but instead - I guess - slighly declining?

No, there's no evidence for your claim, it's pure propaganda and, btw., there is always the argument: is it "because of" or is it "in spite of"?

:green

[hutch--]

I have been listening to the prophets of doom for the last 10 years and I have not heard anything new here. If assembler programming is declining, it sure does not show with the download rate over the last 10 years, it does not show with members who come in, learn enough and don't need te forum any longer and then there is the notion of falling market share, against what, the rest ?  :bg

RE: What learner "should" be doing, I hae heard all of this claptrap before in ALA, we did it that way so you should too.

The reason why you see no evidence is because you don't want to see evidence. I have no doubt that the vast number of successful MASM programmers sit up at night wiping away the tears inbetween wringing their hands at such revelations except that they could not be bothered hearing them.  :P