The day of cosmonautics

[hutch--]

I am old enough to remember Yuri Gagarin and it was as important as Sputnik a few years earlier, both being important firsts in space and an indication of who had superior technology first. While the US effort to put a man on the moon was a major technical step forward complete with the Saturn rocket technology to do it, one needs to have some idea of just how big the rockets at Balkonir actually are and they are still the only reliable way to service a space station as the Shuttle series have been plagued with reliability and safety problems.

Without remembering the order, I know it was Russia that first orbited the moon and sent back photos of the back of the moon, the US did the Mariner probe to Mars which sent back 360 degree scans of the surface but the one that did fascinate me was the Russian probe soft landing on Venus and sent back photos of the surface noting that the surface temperature is about that of molten lead.

Probably the factor against this type of technology is the sheer cost of doing it and the lack of viable low cost alternatives. Sooner or later a different propulsion system will need to be developed that is smaller and more powerful than various combinations of fossil fuel and oxygen and this probably means nuclear powering of some sort.

[lingo]

Hi Svin, :lol

“I think, among all Russian people I know, I can NOT find one who'd say a bad word about USSR "The Cosmonautics".
Most people here still think that it was the best thing that happened in USSR.”

“What we got? In old times we got hope, dreams, pride, insurance of military defence, and perspective. And for us in old times it worth more than money.”

I know it very well and it is a proof  that the "scientific” theory of socialism works well
for brain washing, now in China for example…

“For western people strange thing about USSR was that highly educated people got less money that simple workers.”

Here in Toronto most of the cab drivers are “highly educated people” too…
so it is “normal” for “western people”…

"Yet people would go to Universities (it was free education) 'cause it meant to have interesting job, though the job was less paid."
Here is similar  (not free education) and some young people still believe in “interesting job” but real live is not so easy and a it is bit different…

"Cosmos" demands so much development in all hightechs that nothing else could involve. In all fields of sience.
For example why "Proton" is still most reliable space missile? It's first of all heat stable mettal, and only then engine,electonics (also heat stable) and architecture. So Cosmos it is a lot of math, chemestry, phisics, electronics and so on...
It was interesting jobs and very interesting, perspective project. Millions very interesting jobs. And expansion to outer space - not to other human beings countries.

Of course you are very emotional, but the real goal and efforts was the creation of the  reliable carriers of the nuclear weapons and it not so “interesting job” because some people still remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl…

On the other hand you can’t work your “interesting job”  in former communist country without permission of the “gorodskoi komitet KPSSa”. Well if you are a general member of the KPSS you still have a chance to work your “interesting job”  but if someone from “gorodskoi komitet KPSSa” decides something else about your future, and the communist party “send you” to work somewhere… You are not free to say NO, aren’t you ?

“…from which I can assume that one side ideology was Good Russian is Dead Russian,”
What about “no man, no problem“ by Josef Stalin   


“What do you prefer instead - new car?, blonds from PlayBoy?, fat belly? it's boring, man... I fill sorry for people with such a limmited "dreams"...
I fill sorry for you because:
-  are you so experienced enough to evaluate properly the culture of the  people against you?
- your list of  “limited dreams” is very short and STUPID
Why?
-New car and/or  boat  – it is not a problem or “dream” here   
- blonds from PlayBoy – I hate chemicals and silicones and prefer blond Russian and Polish girls
from my living area (not married)

- fat belly – may be it is your dream not mine because I am not a musician and visit a gym regularly

“In general soviet people wanted to have the Americans as freinds rather than enemies

It is a myth of the Soviet propaganda. In the real live Soviet people hate the Americans
because they are “guilty” for their poverty

“So for children the best role to play "hero", was to play "cosmonauts".

Against brain washing propaganda about real live and problems of these people
For example who knows details about the healthy status of the “cosmonauts" after the
landing, etc..

Talking of now days - "usage of Cosmos" (outer space) is a strange question indeed - it's now highly commercial and practical now. It's - cheap communications, sattelite Internet and TV, waether prediction, rescue operations.

Ok, but some years ago it was military top secret…and it is just a proof that
“the bad people create and use new high technology just to kill
other people, to make more money and power.”

“In future lots of perspective for ecology for example all this radiative garbage can be berried on some deserted planets instead of Earth. etc. etc.”

Fortunately it is very expensive and “all this radioactive garbage” will stay in Russia
and other nuclear countries. There is enough Russian and USA garbage in the space…




skywalker,

"Did Russia send up animals first or directly with humans ?"

Link about Russian space dogs:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Russian+space+dogs

Regards,
Lingo

[The Svin]

“For western people strange thing about USSR was that highly educated people got less money that simple workers.”

Here in Toronto most of the cab drivers are “highly educated people” too…
so it is “normal” for “western people”…

You didn't get my point.
First of all let's make it clear - I told about USSR time, not present Russia.
And the fact that even after detailed explonation you understood me in a wrong way just proves that I was right about it was strange.
I told not about education of "drivers", but about jobs that aimed for educated people in USSR were paid less than dirty work aimed for unqualified workes.
Is usual there where you are in Toronto, is it usual that unqualified workers are paid more than highly qualified engeneers and sientists with wolrd known names?
My point was that In USSR it was usual that bus driver earned more money than professor, yet people go to Universities 'cause it meant more intersting job though the job was usualy harder and paid less.
Do I make myself clear, or you are going to insist that in your Toronto uneducated shit-cleaners make more money than proffessors?

[The Svin]

I know it very well and it is a proof  that the "scientific” theory of socialism works well
for brain washing, now in China for example…

Wake up, lingo. There are no more USSR, KPSS etc, I told of opinon of Russians I know that live now in absolutly different country :)

[daydreamer]

I always been interested in exploring outerspace and was sad spacerace stopped, oilcrisis and Americans think they won
that all talk Bush said about moonbase and mars is good, but its not because he is a visionary like Kennedy, but out of nessesity, because he is afraid the chineses will be catching up and win spacerace now
much useful inventions in international space station, comes from russian experience of spending longtime in space, developed chemicals to make air reusable, while the crappy spaceshuttle is limited to 14 days of airsupply
those pioneers are not so celebrated as first in space, first on moon, but they make great job, trying to know how it works when humans spend longtime in space, which is required for trips beyond moon

I feel sorry for Gagarin died in an accident later when he was flight instructor

[daydreamer]

Svin
well uneducated shitcleaners vs proffessors generalism, we dont live in such World anymore, our local busdriver is welleducated doctor, but he cant get that job because he is black and he still needs to pay his bills he has to take such simple job
many are welleducated but has to take simple jobs here

[The Svin]

It is a myth of the Soviet propaganda. In the real live Soviet people hate the Americans
because they are “guilty” for their poverty

Man, sorry but it sound stupid ;)
'Cause
1. there are no "Soviet people" anymore, so you can not use the verb "hate" in present time.
2. When I was "a soviet" - I didn't hate the Americans, my mother, sister, brothers etc. didn't.
Freinds, schoolmate ... etc people didn't also. I intentially stressed in my posts by "people I know",
"in my times" - that I'm talking of my own experience. What do YOU know about it? Tales?
If you don't belive I'm honest by some strange means in my words - then call me a lier. But, don't call me Soviet propoganda, 'cause you are talking to me (the Svin), not to some "Soviet propoganda".
3. We couldn't know if there were people "“guilty” for our poverty", 'cause we had in general no idea that we were "in poverty".
We lived in information blocade. And when you can't compare your life with others you don't know wether it's better or worse :).
There were some rumors about realities the West, but there were just a few who knew it for sure.
And rumors were about both better and worse realities.
On one side hand were rumors of better salaries, shops, services, on the other hand - rumors of unemploiments, high house rents, expencive food and education. So it had been very hard to know untill iron shield fell.

Soviet propoganda... funny :)
I even wasn't member of Komsomol, if you know what I'm talking about. In our city (1 000 000 population), there were just 2 guys who refused to be a Komsomol member, with all problems that followed... And I was one of them.
You know our talks remind me some UN discussions in time of Cold War.
Do we need to be so pathetic? Why can't we as normal people, not politicians, just share information as eye witnesses, how it is (was) in places where we live(d)?
Did I tell you how people live in Canada?
No - 'cause I don't live there. Why then I'm constanly told how people lived in the USSR or live in Russia by those who don't live in Russia?
Why need we agitate each other. I was first to call USSR "for simple people" ideology "idealistic and not realistic".
But about things I remember - I fermly stand my grounds - people were proud about Kosmos, violence was something shamefull,
and about what hate you are talking - I don't know - home libraries of usual people were full of books by the American writers, people loved jazz, and so on - I LIVED IN USSR - I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES, now - may be some large group don't like the Americans, but not in the USSR - it is myth that soviets hated the Americans, though they like more Native Americans than not native ones :)

[The Svin]

Svin
well uneducated shitcleaners vs proffessors generalism, we dont live in such World anymore, our local busdriver is welleducated doctor, but he cant get that job because he is black and he still needs to pay his bills he has to take such simple job
many are welleducated but has to take simple jobs here

Thanks, !Czealot.
Allow me clarify it to death :) With your help, if you don't mind.
Assume the local busdriver some day has found a job appropriate for him as welleducated doctor.
Will he be a better paid as a qualified doctor than he used to be paid as driver?

[The Svin]

What about “no man, no problem“ by Josef Stalin

1. I didn't live in his time, and I was talking of time I've been living. So it not relative to the topic.
2. Stalin killed his own people, not the Americans. He hate his own people. But again it doesn't consern to Russians\Americans hate.
3. I talked not of leaders (to wich I don't belong) but of usual people. You force me type the same things, I've already typed, for many times. May be it doesn't worth be in such rush, and read words more caryfully, or you can be at risk to fight with some point that isn't actually present?

[The Svin]

cant get that job because he is black

Hm...
Do you still have such a problem?
I thought it is history nowdays :\

[The Svin]

On the other hand you can’t work your “interesting job”  in former communist country without permission of the “gorodskoi komitet KPSSa”. Well if you are a general member of the KPSS you still have a chance to work your “interesting job”  but if someone from “gorodskoi komitet KPSSa” decides something else about your future, and the communist party “send you” to work somewhere… You are not free to say NO, aren’t you ?

Yes, in general it's right. Though it has nothing to do with my point. You are trying to brake into opened door :)
My point is about different aspect.
Ok, let me put it in this way:
What usually means "promotion" for the western people?
Correct me if I'm wrong - usually it means changing both work conditions and salary.
And usually it means changing for better.
By work conditions you could mean many things, better tools, rooms, possibilities, controls etc.
Better salary - obvious - means more money.
Not aways in USSR :)
For example you start as worker with 430r. per month salary, you got more experienced, skillfull, resourcefull.
To say more - you become highly respected, and your soviet BOSS decided to promote you.
He offer you job as "the Master" - mean that you become a chiff of large group of workers,
you can control them, direct them, teach them, all of them under your athority.
And what about your salary? From 430 r. it falls to 150 r.... :)
It was the way the commy tried to regulate emploiment, qualified and prestiges jobs paid less them dirty, borring job.
As beginner actor I was paid 90 r. - taxis.
As musician - classic player less than 80 r.
As musician teacher for amatours - 190 r.
As musician teacher for proffies - 75 r :)
As director of student music theater 45 r !
But when I was a simple male nurse in mental hospital I had 750 r.

And I'm not saying that it was good system (I think it was not) - I'm just saying that despite this abnormal system people went to the Universities, there were lots of Universities yet they provide tens times less student places than people who want to get high graduation. There was government insured distribution of the graduated, so they got jobs for sure according to proffession they got
(in case of missunderstanding that they couldn't find job in their speciality - they got those jobs for sure) - the only problem was that work as scienist meant less money than work as unqualified worker.

[rags]

Svin,
From my observations, it appears that the October Revolution changed nothing except the names of the ruling class, with the elimination of the Monarchy.
Using the information that was made available here in the West about the Soviet system, it seems to me that Lennin and Stalin set themselves up as czars, with the Party elite replacing the wealthy class of people.
The Communists Party upper level members were given better homes, cars, etc, while the average person got none of these.
As you said, I dont know for shure, because I didn't live there. I'm just using the information available to me.
I have no love for the czar and his Cossacks either. They murdered most of my Great-Grandmothers family, and burned their farm, she was Ukranian.
Rags

[hutch--]

Alex,

Your list of occupations to payment is in fact very interesting in that it does remove the ilitist element from work that needs to be done on the basis of who gets paid for the dirtiest work or the hardest jobs. I have long had the image of someone who works in a sewerage treatment plant doing what is a really horrible job yet if it was not done, the society that uses the sewerage facility would be overflowing in its own effluent.

With a simple question, why should someone in a warm comfortable job get paid more than someone who does a hard dirty job, often out in the cold ?

[zcoder]

Kennedy was not a visionary,

Back in Kennedy's time the Americans came up with a plot to defeat the USSR
by over spending them and couse the USSR to go bank rupt, some ways was
through out spending in SPACE, WEAPONS, ECT, ECT

So kennedy started it out by making that statement not knowing how long it would
take, but that it would make the USSR spend more to stay ahead.

Then in the late 80's Regan talked about the so called star war's which did not exist.
and the fact that the USSR was not doing good in Afganistan and the cost of that war
and the space programs and the keeping up of all this weapon sh*t took it's tole.

There is more detail I left out, as I was just touching on points of what the true reason for
Kennedy's speach was way back then.

Zcoder....

[Manos]

The 12th of April is celebrated in Russia as the day of cosmonautics. In that day in far 1961 Joury (Youry?) Gagarin became the very first human being that entered the outer space. And his name will remain in history forever.

Did Russia send up animals first or directly with humans ?

They sent a dog I believe though it was far before my time. I agree with The Svin, the Soviet space program was top notch and was riddled with all of the truly important firsts, there is no doubt that the US won the space race but that's only because the Soviet Union paved the road for them. However, it cannot be said that the US or Soviet Union were great innovators, most of the technology came for both sides from captured German scientists such as Herman Grottrup in the Soviet Union and Wernher Von Braun in the US, as well at the end of the war both countries seized a number of V2 rockets that became the nucleus of their space programs. Without the contribution of the Germans, both countries would probably still be trying to put something into orbit.

Donkey

I agree with Donkey.
Also I remember that Soviet Union sent a female dog with name Lika before Gagarin.

Manos.