What type of Windows programmer are you?

[Bill Cravener]

I primarily consider myself a practical-creative Windows programmer. My opinion is the practical-creative Windows programmer has enough knowledge at what he or she does and is able to take the various Windows programming languages, be it utility, application or internet web based development and put them to good use in making money at it. When a problem rears its head in need of a solution a practical-creative programmer takes his knowledge and applies the basics of known principles to solve the problem for his or her clients. All things are taken into account be it ease of use, ease of coding, ease of maintenance and of course code complexity. Though the later is avoided as much as possible do to time restraints. The practical-creative Windows programmer applies the basics and ideas behind needed solutions but avoids over complicated or over-done ways of getting a solution completed. In other words do it properly, get the job done, but don't spend too much time on perfection so one can get paid for the effort put forth before you end up going hungry. :bg

Then there is what I consider a sophisticated Windows programmer, that of which I've never seen myself as being. A sophisticated Windows programmer is interested in the highest quality code using the least amount of clock cycles and in my opinion they are absolutely the best programmers when it comes to handling exceptional conditions. They value the refinement of their code above all else and that is what they truly seek. They want the code quality in a project to be the highest possible even though it may extend the project development time beyond the deadline. They give very tough code reviews and even tougher code design reviews. My opinion is that sophisticated Windows programmers are mostly technical gurus with a great need to know how things work underneath the covers. Every time someone listens to a sophisticated Windows programmer they are improving themselves as a programmer regardless of the programming language being used. :thumbu

Then there is the hobbyist Windows programmer. I myself fit somewhat in this category because I no longer program Windows full time nor do I only program for the money (as my many free Masm32 examples testify to). In fact my opinion is Windows programming is actually much more fun if it is done as a hobby. I started out as a hobbyist back in the mid 80's for a short time using basic for DOS but soon discovered assembly language thru a Heathkit programming course a few years later. As a hobbyist programmer you can create your own programs that suite your own personal needs and use them at your own disposal. There are no time restraints or the need of a client's approval when it's done strictly for ones self-satisfaction. The possibilities really are endless for the hobbyist programmer. Hobbyist Windows programmers are people who do it strictly because of the enjoyment it brings and the fun of exploring new ideas on their own time at their own pace and at their own expense. :wink

So my question is, using my interpretations above, what type of Windows programmer are you?

[fearless]

Hi Bill,

I too would consider myself a hobbyist programmer. I do it for the same self-satisfaction without any time constraints or pressures or only ones of my own choosing. Learning, creativity and problem solving in itself are great self motivators, and according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs are the path to self actualization. Even if i dont buy into that, i still get something from messing about and figuring out coding problems myself. I tend to liken what i do and why i do it, to how some people like to do crosswords, chess or sudoku puzzles - something they do for their own enjoyment and to keep the ol grey matter ticking over.

[Vortex]

A sophisticated Windows programmer is interested in the highest quality code using the least amount of clock cycles and in my opinion they are absolutely the best programmers when it comes to handling exceptional conditions.

Hi Bill,

It depends. Using the least amount of clock means a lot of optimization and work. This kind of hard optimization also means spending a lot of time. Your definition of practical-creative Windows programmer is a good one as it can be applied to real life where timing and scheduling is very important to accomplish various technical tasks. The comparaison is probably not the best but no need to a have a Cisco and \ or MS degree to maintain a Windows network and no need to squeeze every tiny CPU cycle to be a good programmer. Imagine that you code an IDE in assembly and calculating the clock cycles would be probably a very hard work : premature optimization is the root of all evil. A good sign of sophisticated programming is also the ability and knowledge to write easily readable and maintainable code.

Personnaly, I would fit the category of hobbyist as I code for self-satisfaction just like many member of the forum.

There are very good coders here in the forum who are real sophisticated Windows programmers. For example, I could cite members like Bogdan Ontanu, Japheth, KetilO, Donkey, MichaelW and some other people as they have deep knowledge and understanding of productive Windows programming.

[bozo]

Purely as a hobby, never worked as programmer my entire short life and it's unlikely I ever will.
It had seemed like a good career at one stage but nah..being an application specialist or system administrator with a little bit of programming would probably pay a reasonably good wage with less work involved.  :bg

[baltoro]

HI BILL,
This is a tough question,...you're basically trying to tag us with a convenient label,...I don't know if it is significant,...
I've noticed from reading the posts of individual assembly programmers here at the MASM forums, that they are a highly diverse bunch,...but, generally, very knowledgeable and capable,...
In fact, some of the guys here are so capable and experienced in the Windows System architecture that it's truly frightening,...at least to someone like me. :eek
When I first was inspired to become a programmer, I wanted to write complex mathematical forecasting models and diagnostics. I think this aspiration exceeded my actual intellectual abilities. So, I learned the standard methods of Windows user-mode programming (from the SDK and published Petzold-like reference manuals). I learned C++, and COM, the .NET Framework, and Assembly Language (preliminary). I taught myself graphics (DirectX), and familiarized myself with most other multimedia technology.
But,...I have almost no knowledge of kernel-mode, Operating System architecture. I don't have a thorough understanding of the Windows security model, nor am I familiar with Windows networking implementation or Windows Internet IP/TCP driver systematics.
Anti-Virus and anti-malware concepts, in general, are just a big ugly black hole in my brain. It's the stuff that I don't know that causes anxiety.
...So, I consider myself,...an inept programmer, an amateur,...a FRAUD. :eek

...But, I've got that cool, laidback California-Zen attitude,... :dazzled:

[raymond]

I'm strictly a hobbyist. And whatever optimization I attempt is also for my own satisfaction. I don't believe in optimization strictly for the sake of optimization.

I can remember when I had that PC-XT (4 MHz) in the late 80s, you almost had time to read each line when scrolling a page of text on the screen. After I looked at how DOS was handling that process, I wrote my own procedure for scrolling. It then seemed instantaneous. Those were the OLD days.

I certainly wouldn't attempt to rewrite some of the current Windows functions such as displaying 150 check boxes and numerous other controls on the screen and then tracking any event on them. It could be done but at a tremendous cost in programming time without any benefit at all for the end user.

[dedndave]

i am the kind that annoys the hell out of other programmers because of the way i write code   :bdg

[xandaz]

    Hey Bill. Hobbyist here. Or a wanna be. Still too many questions tho i've learned some things. It used to be easier back in DOS days.

[sinsi]

Hobbyist here too. I want a program to run on my computer, I put one together.
When it works I leave it alone - no error checks since I know my own computer, no optimisation because it works, good enough for me.

Non-windows programming though, I write my own diag programs which boot the computer, and continually work on them.
Too many weird configurations, you have to keep up with that sort of low level stuff. Windows is the ultimate 'abstraction level'.

[jj2007]

I am not a professional programmer, but I have always used my tools in my profession. And the first half of my "programming life" was with Atari ST, not with Windows.

My main motivations are 1. fun and 2. making my life easier. I am flabbergasted to see people with a Ph.D. work a whole day on a task that an Excel macro could do in a few seconds. And of course, I completely ignore that it may take me a day to code that macro :lol

As Baltoro, I am deeply impressed with the knowledge that you can find in this forum. Right now, 4 members are online - and 69 guests. It seems they are working even on Saturdays in Redmond :bg

[Bill Cravener]

No doubt about it those folks and others too humble to admit it here that Vortex referred to in his post are indeed sophisticated very knowledgeable coders and way above my knowhow in assembly language. There are many of you who are also way above me in the hardware end of these machines we use everyday. I know enough about the guts of these boxes we use to fix most problems but I'm ignorant when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of how things work.

I think most of us folks here on the Masm32 forum are basically hobbyists. I myself do make a buck coding up simple API based utilities in Masm32 for clients now and then but much of the money I make programming Windows comes from website development these days. If you've taught yourself assembly language and the Windows API's learning HTML, CSS and JavaScript is easy. As I stated I know enough using various languages to make a few bucks programming for Windows hence the reason I consider myself a practical-creative programmer, but the hobbyist end of it is what I enjoy the most. :bg

[hutch--]

The only thing I admit to is being a cantankerous old bastard.  :P

[Bill Cravener]

Stop being so humble Steve. On the over hand that's the reason I'm so fond of you, it's your Aussie cantankerous wit I so admire about you buddy. :bg

[oex]

I aspire to reach the great heights of coders such as Clive, Bogdan, Alex, Japeth, JJ.... The list goes on and on in this forum.... Coders who really have a deep mathematical/scientific understanding of programming.... Fortunately I have a headstart and can stand on the shoulders of these giants, however, I know that with such great priviledge comes great responsibility and personal sacrifice.... So for my hobby after getting up at 5am every morning and after 1 hour of self flagellation whilst chanting the intel manuals I tend to spend the remainder of my day in silent mnemonic contemplation on a caffine drip....

[baltoro]

Is this a great forum, or what ???