What's the diff between MASM and MASM32 ?

[vmars316]

Greets,
I ran across this article at (see below):
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1374506/asm-ide-recommendations
Which cautions against using masm32 versus masm.
Can someone knowledgeable, advise me on this.
Thanks...vmars316

MASM32 (from http://www.masm32.com/) does not have anything to do with Microsoft or MASM as such. It is a package mostly made by an Australian known as Steve Hutchesson (aka hutch). This package contains lots of headers and example code and it uses the Microsoft ml/link binaries version 6.x from 1998 or so. It is absolutely useless for any modern x86 32-bit Windows assembly programming. Never make the mistake of mixing up MASM and MASM32. I see a lot of people making this mistake. I have even seen people give up on MASM because they thought that MASM32 was it. It is really sickening. As for the actual package itself, the example code may be useful for new ASM programmers but you should stay away from the MASM32 "library" and the outdated headers which give you parsing errors in new versions of MASM.

[oex]

hmm sounds like the comments of a Java kiddy scripter to me :lol....

If you want Microsoft to do everything for you then use the latest version of VB... Obviously the main benefit of the masm32 project (at least to me) is the extensive technical support and knowledge of this forums members that Microsoft is fairly incompetant at.... The fact that it's free :lol.... It's understanding of it's weaknesses and links to other projects like jwasm where also masm falls down.... I am no expert on the differences but I'd add as much weight to the comment as the abilities of the guy who wrote it.... I did a search on google and found the original writers website (complete with html errors :lol)....

The link you posted above from the guy who quoted it came complete with a broken link to his "Hello World" application :lol

[donkey]

Hutch is the best person to explain this however...

MAMS32 is a set of libraries, definitions and tools to help you program using the Microsoft Macro Assembler (MASM). The link in the post above is seriously misinformed or poster might have some issues with Hutch personally. Though VS is one of the most powerful IDEs out there, there are many tools that you can use with MASM, for example RadAsm, WinAsm or EasyCode. As for the definitions and libraries being out of date, well in reality the novice assembly programmer will find that the newer functions are not used much anyway and by the time you're advanced far enough to actually make use of them you should know how to build your own or add to Hutch's excellent package. As for options MASM32 does not try to restrict you to a programming style, it is a loosely structured API based programming library and though there are many competing packages out there for MASM programming, MASM32 became the de-facto standard for 32 bit models because it is so flexible. It is true that the MASM32 library has little to no support for ML64 but that is to be expected, not only because it is outside of the scope of the package but also because ML64 is not really worth supporting as of yet. So I would tend not to take the advice of random posters on some site when it comes to assembly programming and the best tools to use, they are usually misinformed and almost always give an opinion that makes their own choice look like the only right one.

[oex]

I ran across this article at (see below):
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1374506/asm-ide-recommendations

rules for this forum

hmm sounds like the comments of a Java kiddy scripter to me :lol

A protected forum where programmers learning assembler can ask questions in a sensible and safe atmosphere without being harassed or insulted.

[donkey]

Hey oex,

Sorry misunderstood your post. I've removed the comment.

The guys total contribution to assembly programming appears to be his "Hello World" program:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1414260/dos-interrupt-in-masm-x86-assembly-crashing

[hutch--]

It is the case where a little knowledge is dangerous. A simple "hello world" written in the setup the author has in mind is something that was trivial in masm32 in 1998 when it was introduced. RE: The ML version, current headers and libraries work fine with ML 9.0 and 10.0 and they are still the most comprehensive for Win32.

Compare what has been done in MASM32 over the last 12 years then compare the author's "hello world", you can draw your own conclusions from the comparison.

[dedndave]

i find it interesting to see how "mysterious" assembly language is to those guys   :P
you'd think they were talking about UFO's or something

[jj2007]

The guys total contribution to assembly programming appears to be his "Hello World" program:

The quoted guy is somebody (see whois) in Arizona.
The nasty Masm32 quote can be found here, in a fairly well written intro to x86 programming. He also maintains a fast and concise x86 reference.

But of course, his comments are malicious and misleading. The Masm32 package is up to date, runs just fine on ML.exe 8.0, 9.0 etc, and if one of the brand new but mostly useless Win7 functions is missing, you can add them easily.

[oex]

The quoted guy is somebody (see whois) in Arizona.

Doesnt Dave live in Arizona? :lol

[hutch--]

This is the revealing part of his page. I have deliberately pissed off a lot of the virus and cracking gang over the years so it makes sense that he is hostile to both me and the masm32 project.

The truth is that most people learn x86 ASM nowadays to crack commercial software, to reverse engineer closed source programs and to write cheats for computer games. Cracking is the one that made me learn it but I have to admit that I never got particularly good at it and I got totally distracted from my original goal in the process of understanding how it works. It is my experience that it is essential to learn how to write x86 ASM yourself first in order to be successful at cracking and reverse engineering. Knowing how to manually translate a C++ program to assembly is a valuable skill to have for this purpose.

[dedndave]

read the whois page carefully - his Arizona domain is a proxy - i doubt he's in Arizona

....and, i could care less about viruses or cracking
i do RE one program - yahoo messenger - only to eliminate the ads   :P

[baltoro]

...It is really sickening,...

:eek ...This is starting to look suspiciously like another hutch tribute thread,... :eek

But, all kidding aside,...I think EDGAR summed up the situation accurately, above: The link in the post above is seriously misinformed.

Assembly language is probably the most difficult to learn and to become competent programming it. The MASM32 package is well thought out and designed,...and is incredibly helpful in particular to beginning assembly programmers. And, the MASM Forum is an amazing group of knowledgeable, experienced assembly programmers (well,...except me and OEX, of course...) that are on alert 24 hours a day to assist the novice and inexperienced programmers out there,... And,...most importantly,...the code generated by the MASM compiler and linker works perfectly with Visual Studio Projects (as you would expect).

:eek ...By the way,...hutch pisses EVERYONE off,...it's probably his most endearing quality,... :eek

[vanjast]

Those posts are from 2009 ?

[hutch--]

 :bg

> By the way,...hutch pisses EVERYONE off

Hay,

I am not used to all this flattery but at least it means I am good at something.  :P

[dedndave]

at least we don't see him poking angry crocodiles widda stick   :lol