Any advantages to 64 bit?

[Damos]

I've been toying wih the idea on starting on 64 bit code, for which I will need to upgrade my OS. So, i've been reading up on 64 bit assembly.
The only advantage I can see for 64 bit is the extra registers.
Even the larger addressing space isn't that much of an advantage I doubt that any program needs anymore memory than 4.3 gig.
The encoding for each instruction is double the length.
Strange calling convention that takes arguments on registers but requires the stack space to be allocated anyway.
If I need to do integer calculations in 64 bit I can use MMX/SSE.
So really what are the advantages to moving on "up" to 64 bit?

[dedndave]

good question
it looks somewhat cumbersome to me
personally, i think intel, amd, and ms are trying to push something on us we don't really need

[mitchi]

Right now if you have a 32 bit system with 4 gigs of ram and you bought a video card with 1 gig of VRAM to play the latest video games.
You will only have roughly <3 gigs of ram available for your Windows because the video card's memory space is inserted into your memory space and replaces your RAM.

Not to mention that on 32 bit Windows, by default, all of your user-mode apps can only use 2 gigs of ram. I think you can see that we are already limited by this, this is why we have 64 bits.

[Damos]

The amount of apps that would need more than 2 gig of ram must be limited though.
Afterall we sent a man to the moon on a 8 bit computer with less than 64k.
Does the whole computer market need to have even more bloated code just for the sake of the few rare apps that need huge amounts of ram.
I would argue that 2 systems identicle in all respects exept that one used 64 bit code and one 32 bit, running conventional apps, the one with 32 bit code should run quicker, if only because more code was in the L1 cache.
I do however yearn to have another 8 registers.

[jj2007]

Not to mention that on 32 bit Windows, by default, all of your user-mode apps can only use 2 gigs of ram. I think you can see that we are already limited by this, this is why we have 64 bits.

I just checked my system, and I got only 1 (one!) gig of ram. Now I feel so terribly limited, and I am crying bitterly. I like this notebook a lot, I never had any problems, but I feel so ashamed that I will send it to some poor African school tomorrow.

[dedndave]

shoooooooooooooooot
i remember when 64 Kb was "amazing"

[bruce1948]

I can remeber when a certain Bill Gates was reported to have said 64K is enough for anybody!

[mitchi]

The amount of apps that would need more than 2 gig of ram must be limited though.
Afterall we sent a man to the moon on a 8 bit computer with less than 64k.
Does the whole computer market need to have even more bloated code just for the sake of the few rare apps that need huge amounts of ram.
I would argue that 2 systems identicle in all respects exept that one used 64 bit code and one 32 bit, running conventional apps, the one with 32 bit code should run quicker, if only because more code was in the L1 cache.
I do however yearn to have another 8 registers.

You never have enough ram.
If you have a server app that serves videos, having lots of ram for caching is great, it saves disk I/O.
Even Windows Vista, by default, will use all free ram to cache frequently used files and applications.

Computers are not just about making calculations anymore.

[donkey]

I can remeber when a certain Bill Gates was reported to have said 64K is enough for anybody!

It was 640K and he denies ever saying that, I tend to believe him as I have seen the quote hundreds of times but not once have I ever seen where it was made or in what context.

For myself I am making the switch to 64 bit only to be able to test some of my updates and headers, besides that I don't have any real need for it. Right now it's driving me nuts as I am starting to write a profiler for GoAsm code and have to prepare for 2 systems at once.

[bruce1948]

mea culpa should have said 640k


Try this link

http://digg.com/microsoft/1989_Bill_Gates_Talk_on_Microsoft

Bill Gates discusses various topics including VGA graphics, OS/2, and software piracy. Most notably, Bill states that in 1981 he thought that 640k would last for 10 years. He then reveals that 640k was only good enough for 6 years. Is this evidence that Gates' 1981 "640k ought to be enough for anybody" quote could be true?

If he didin't actually say it would appear he said something pretty close

Bruce

[donkey]

Well, I completely disbelieve that or its wildly out of context. In 1989 Windows NT351 was in development and OS/2 was out both of which need more than 640K to operate. Most PCs at the time were using LIM EMS expanded memory to be able to use spreadsheets and DB software effectively. All of the talk at the time was about convergence and multimedia both of which needed more memory than could be practically supplied at the time. Hell, the number of schemes just to manage the memory above 640K by 1989 boggles the mind. In my opinion the source is bulls**t, digg is all user supplied information so it is suspect from the start:

Digg is a place for people to discover and share content from anywhere on the web. From the biggest online destinations to the most obscure blog, Digg surfaces the best stuff as voted on by our users. You won't find editors at Digg — we're here to provide a place where people can collectively determine the value of content and we're changing the way people consume information online.

[hutch--]

64 bit is coming but its like the second coming, it will happen one day but don't hold your breath. The server end of the market both needed it and has it as does a few apps like very large databases and some graphic manipulation programs where the effective 2 gig of usable memory is not enough for very high resolution images but for ordinary hacking around the internet, typing letters, running spreadsheets and the like Win95 easily did all of that and win3.1 did most of it.

64 bit will eventually be imposed on the computer market as the vendors of both software and hardware will make it that way.

The downside is the hardware is not really there yet, to put in enough memory to make up for the 64 bit versus 32 bit usage, most boards will not take enough and the memory is expensive. The development tools are in their infancy and the hardware is changing fast. Multicore processors are making a bigger impact on the market than 64 bit processing.

Another problem is mechanical hard disk drives are not getting much faster at the moment even though they are getting bigger and this impacts on performance when you have to load much bigger files. 64 bit means often doing twice the work of 32 bit so unless you need the extra address space you will keep getting more bang for your buck in 32 bit for some time to come.

[ecube]

They have SSD(solid state drives) which has no moving parts, and who's speed is absolutely incredible, they're quiet, are suppose to have a very long, longevity. Problem is they're still very expensive, and don't come in large sizes yet, when that changes watch out! I've seen a lot of improvement in some games thanks to 64bit, the frame rates looks crisper. Also compression and encryption handle alot better under 64bit,especially with time/memory tradeoff techniques, so thats exciting. If you were thinking about upgrading anything, you should consider it now as the economy hasn't fully bounced back yet and there's ALOT of deals, my favorite is newegg.com, built my entire pc from there, best shipping/return policy is the world.

[hutch--]

Yes, the new SSDs are very fast but they do not have the life of a machanical hard disk yet. When the technology is mature mechanical hard disks will be museum pieces. Less heat, much smaller and much faster, no real distinction between dynamic memory and storage once its fully developed.

[Slugsnack]

it seems to me that 32 bit will become a dying race sooner rather than later. maybe not because of necessity but because of software companies forcing it this way

the most obvious sign to me is the release of server 2008 R2 which comes only in 64 bit. whether you like it or not it seems 64 bit is coming and here to stay. since i do intend a career in this field in the future, rather than avoid it and become comparable to those now still doing 16 bit coding, i'd rather embrace it early(ish) so by the time i graduate and get a job it won't be a new thing to me

so IMO it's not even about choice anymore.. if you want to keep up with the technology and industry you're going to have to be switching from 32 >> 64 AT SOME POINT, may as well make it sooner