Thoughts on building your own PC

[shankle]

I personally don't think the average person (me included) has the skills
necessary to build a PC from scratch. There are lots of sites advertising
tutorials on building PCs. But how do you know the information is not
from 5 to 10 years old? As far as I know there are no books available
like "Build Your Own PC for Dummies 2007". 

Yes I have replaced floppy drives, CD drives, HD drives, added memory
and modem cards but I think this is a long way from qualifying me to
assemble a PC. For starters which one of the 50,000 cases should I
get or the 50,000 motherboards. Already I am lost.

I know Dell's prices are out of line. I think if I got into this the mistakes
I would make would wind up costing me more than buying one from Dell.
Regards,
JPS
 

[lingo]

"I personally don't think the average person (me included)
has the skills necessary to build a PC from scratch."

It is wrong or may it is true now but will be false tomorrow...
If you don't start now you never will do it and always will spend
money in the future for stupid things
(for example: to mount new heatsink with CPU fan
or to add more memory, etc)
So, MASM forum can help you to build desktop PC from scratch. 
Example: If you tell to me what kind of CPU you want
                  I can create full parts specification for you
                  and to answer your questions after that

Hence, don't worry because everyone can do it when he/she starts  :lol

Regards,
Lingo     

[shankle]

Hi Lingo,
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Here is the machine I have in mind:
      Intel Pentium 4    3.00 ghz
      128mb graphics card - no integrated stuff
      Mini-Tower
      Memory 1GB
      48x/32x CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive
      80 gb SATA hard drive 7200 rpm
      3.5 inch 1.44 MB floppy drive
      internal business speaker

   There are probably other things that I need
     such as Ethernet ports
     port for uploading pictures from a Kodak camera
     printer port
     port for connecting to a satellite reciever to program it

    Regards,
   JPS

[MichaelW]

I know Dell's prices are out of line.

Out of line how? Within my experience, building your own system from quality components will end up costing far more than an equivalent Dell system, even if you place no value on your labor. Even if you used the cheapest components you could find, you might still be unable to match the Dell price. While some of the cheapest components available are OK, some are total junk, that in some cases were rejected by one of the OEMs, and finding out which is which is a laborious, time consuming, and sometimes expensive process. Build your own system to get exactly what you want, including components that are too recent to be used in a production system, but don't kid yourself about saving money.

[hutch--]

Jack,

I have recently built two machines of similar spec to what you have in mind except for much larger disk rives and more memory. The tail end PIVs (EM64T) are very cheap now and if you are careful you can get good quality stuff for them at reasonable prices now that core2 Duo processors are taking over. On both boxes I use GIGABYTE boards of the COMBO type as they take either of 2 types oif memory and either AGP*8 or PCI express video cards.

They come with gigabit ethernet onboard and if you are not fussy you can use the built in sound as well. Just see if your older box has anything worth using in it as it may save you some money. The "good" size for a hard disk these days is 320 gig in terms of price per gigabyte. Unless you want otherwise you should be able to use your existing monitor, keyboard, mouse and printer.

[drhowarddrfine]

Be careful when comparing what you build to what Dell or Gateway and the others offer.  Look at the specs carefully.  I always build my own PCs but, when I needed a faster box, Dell offered one that was cheap and right in line with what I wanted.  I figured that later on I could add on a graphics card for whatever reasons that was (don't recall).  Found out several months later that the thing didn't even have an AGP card slot for that. 

I read that sometimes the onboard items cause problems later for those trying to add graphics or audio boards later.

It sounds like the problem, in your case, is what to choose and not how to put it together.  Once you've built one, you can build them all.

[MichaelW]

Systems from the big OEMs are generally not a good choice if you plan on doing major upgrades because they use too many special components. Within my experience, Dell systems consist mostly of special components. IIRC at one time even the memory was special. I have been building my own systems for personal use for a long time, but for a business system that will be used essentially as equipped, Dell is the only way to fly IMO.

[lingo]

shankle,
The guys are right but I think
you need more practical advise...
So, please help me with your choice:  :lol

Step1:
Intel Pentium 4 630, 3.0 GHz (BX80547PG3000F) Processor 
$90
My CPU is Intel Pentium 4 660, 3.6 GHz   

Step2:
Case -
(It is my case)  with 3 fans 120mm only 
Gigabyte 3D Aurora Black Aluminum ATX Full-Tower Case with Front USB, FireWire and Audio Ports
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1538603&sku=G452-4002

but it is my prefered case (with 7 fans 120mm) :

NZXT Zero Black Aluminum ATX Full-Tower Case with Front USB, FireWire and Audio Ports
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2539642&CatId=1864
The same price!

Step3:
CPU Heatsink & Fan
Zalman CNPS9700 LED Heatsink & Fan
$75
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g40/c14/s52/list/p2/Air_Cooling-CPU_HeatsinksCoolers-Socket_775-Page2.html?o=title_az
It is my CPU Heatsink & Fan too...

Step4:
Mobo-
Asus P5B Intel Socket 775 ATX Motherboard / Audio / PCI Express / Gigabit LAN / S/PDIF / USB 2.0 / Serial ATA / RAID
$130
My mobo is:
ASUS P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard


A big problem with mini-case and included with CPU Intel heatsink & fan:

This kind of CPU is very hot and needs other heatsink & fan (intel heatsink & fan do nothing)
When I used my CPU with included Intel heatsink & fan in my old PC mini-case
my temperature  was non loaded -> 40C mobo and 55C CPU
                                        loaded  -> 42C mobo and 82C CPU and CPU has died

I changed  Intel heatsink & fan with  Zalman CNPS9700 LED Heatsink & Fan
and mount all in new bigger and well ventilated PC case with 3 biggest fans (120mm) 
Gigabyte 3D Aurora Black Aluminum ATX Full-Tower Case with Front USB, FireWire and Audio Ports
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1538603&sku=G452-4002

The result is: I overclocked my mobo with 10% and now my 3.60Ghz CPU running  at 4GHz
my temperatures for XP are: non loaded -> 35C mobo and 36C CPU
                                                   loaded  -> 36C mobo and 60C CPU
  my temperatures for Vista  are: non loaded -> 36C mobo and 41C CPU
                                                        loaded  -> 37C mobo and 61C CPU
If I'm not wrong Hutch has experience with the heat too...

Regards,
Lingo

[shankle]

First I want to thank everyone who replied to this post.

My philosophy on computers is run them until they drop or become so
obsolete that they are no longer practical. Don't spend money on an old computer.
Only minor fixes. Therefor whatever I build would most likely stay the same for years.

Thank you Lingo for the nitty-gritty details. There is no way I could make an
intelligent selection of the myriad choices of cases or heat sinks etc. I would
have to rely on the recommendation of someone like you that has used the
specific item. I think a few courses on computer assembly are what I need
before tackling something like this.
Regards,
JPS

[lingo]

"There is no way I could make an intelligent selection of the myriad choices of cases or heat sinks etc. I would have to rely on the recommendation of someone like you that has used the specific item."

Exactly! So, you have to do research about every element in other forums to see others' experience
Use Google  and I believe you can find some reviews for every PC part too...  :lol

Regards,
Lingo

[drhowarddrfine]

I am really not into all these fans.  My son doesn't overclock but he's running at 3.6ghz with one on the cpu, one on the gpu and one case fan with a cpu temp of 54C.  If all these fans are needed, why doesn't every computer have them?  I wonder how much heat is generated by all the fans.

[lingo]

http://www.masm32.com/board/index.php?topic=5657.msg42245#msg42245

and

http://www.intel.com/design/Pentium4/guides/302553.htm

[hutch--]

Doc,

I have had similar exdperiences with late PIVs as Lingo. The last 2 I built with their standard heat sinks ran at over 60C but when I added a large copper radiator heat sink with its built in fan, it dropped to about 30C. I live where the ambient temperature in summer is over 30C and the processors run about 2 to 3C above ambient but I have never seen either go more than another couple of degrees over idle even when processing at 100% for over an hour at a time. This translates to about 35C on continuous processing for hours at a time.

As far as case fans, the larger ones are a lot quieter than the older small ones and they often come with an LED so you know they are powered up while the box is on. I personally run them full speed all the time as I don't trust sensors on mother boards but the entire bundle for being a bit noisy is a far more acceptable thermal package than a box without serious ventilation. Given that I have never used crappy mother boards, I usually get long life out of them  because I am sensitive to thermal cycling killing components in a far shorter lifespan than stuff that is temperature controlled.

My main dev box which is my oldest running PIV still has those horrible noisy little case fans but I ventilate the video card with a centrifical exhaust fan, a copper radiator for the main processor and with one rebuild about 6 months ago it has been running for over 3 years with long hours daily.

[drhowarddrfine]

hutch,
If I read that post correctly, you have two fans plus the copper radiator on the cpu.  All my boxes have a fan on the cpu/heatsink and one fan on the gpu.  I think one of these boxes might have a fan in the power supply and one other might have an additional case fan.  So the max number of fans I have is three and the hottest of those is 50-55C. 

So I understand needing three fans but I don't understand needing seven.

[MichaelW]

For normal use, I just purchase a retail box CPU, use the supplied HSF, and don't worry about it. If Intel or AMD are willing to warranty the CPU for 3 years, the HSF is probably more than adequate for normal conditions.