How Bad Is It ???

[jj2007]

Could the state do something about it. Yes, if they had a president with guts ala Andrew Jackson. He faced a similar dilema of a monopolized banking sistem. http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/andrewjackson

"Jackson prospered sufficiently to buy slaves"  :boohoo:

[hutch--]

xanatose is correct here, the Federal Reserve has a long and unhappy history of shafting US taxpayers and manipulating the US economy to suit the interests of foreign bankers. The US constitution actually protects the US but through dirty politics and desperate politicians that protection was illegally bypassed long ago. Another related blunder is allowing the corporate sector to have the same rights as a US citizen, "personhood" of corporations has been seriously abused since the 1880s when it was sneaked in.

The US could go from destitution to prosperity by altering this historical abuse but it will not be easy, Abe got the bullet, another in the 1880s then the Federal Reserve Act was enabled in 1913 finally selling Americans out and betraying the US founding fathers who wrote the constitution. JFK tried to base the US dollar on silver but was assassinated shortly after. LBJ signed the death of the American dollar (not the Federal reserve dollar) on the plane back to Washington.

The US needs to arrest all of the bastards, black op any who are dangerous (send them to Libya for rendition) then fully trash the Federal Reserve so that the US government fully controls its own currency again. The US can still be a truly great country but it must stop these bastards from sucking the life out of it before it fails.

[clive]

where i may disagree with you, Clive, is that it will hurt all the "little people" around the world - not just US tax payers

I don't think they like that name.

I'm not sure where I've suggested it won't hurt them. I have suggested that everyone should help fund the country they live in, in some fair and fractional manner.

The US is part of a global economy, one of it's strengths is a large and mostly uniform marketplace. If the US consumer isn't buying stuff, all the people involved in the creation and delivery are in peril. My problem with VAT and Gas taxes is that they impact the poor the hardest, even those without cars will see staggering jumps in food prices. On the other hand, if gas where $10/gallon my families monthly cost would increase by enough to pay both my and Bill's health care premiums. It's quite a tempting option for politicians to take.

[clive]

"Jackson prospered sufficiently to buy slaves"  :boohoo:

Didn't you Italians stomp all over Europe taking taxes and slaves for the Empire.

You did build us some fine straight roads though.

[hutch--]

Ditto to that, the introduction of our own local version of a VAT (GST in OZ) was just a tax increase. We got nothing for it but paid more tax and it exactly hit the poorest people in the country.

[baltoro]

In reading the posts in this thread, I had to laugh. I think what's happening here is exactly what's happening with 'the best and the brightest' that we have elected to govern.
Our economic system and all the engineering and industrialization that has coalesced to construct it has got to be too complex to understand and manage effeciently. Even our networked computer systems (which we all worship to a certain degree) are mainly just creating tsunamis of information, most of which is irrelevant. What we really need is accurate analysis. And, while all this is going on,...the momentum of human activities and the bureaucratic bloat of our institutions is increasing,...hurtling us, like an out-of-control Theme Park ride towards the abyss. :eek
Just trying to absorb the statistics concerning, say, the global number of refugees of civil wars,...or, the vast population of people that are either malnourished or starving is mind-boggling. Add to this the documented trends in the emergence of drug-resistant strains of infectious disaeses that were formerly treatable, and, plagues like HIV/AIDS (40 million worldwide),...and, all the ecological devastation (world fisheries depleted by 90%), and, all of it,...it's just amazing that modern societies are still intact.

[GregL]

It was directed at those using the term.

I'd like to call them a lot worse.

[jj2007]

"Jackson prospered sufficiently to buy slaves"  :boohoo:

Didn't you Italians stomp all over Europe taking taxes and slaves for the Empire.

Yes indeed, just before the Middle Ages:

The Middle Ages (adjectival form: medieval or mediæval) was a period of European history from the 5th to the 15th century. The period followed the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476, and preceded the Early Modern Era.

More seriously: Fuel taxes is a tricky story. Europe always had them, the U.S. always rejected them. As a result, Europeans consume half as much fuel, and the average Italian or German or French pays actually less for fuel than the average U.S. citizen. After half a century of cheap fuel, Americans drive a lot more, with cars that do not have a significant market outside the U.S. because they consume too much.

Now the other half of the coin is that, from the roughly 2,000 US$ that both the U.S. and the EU citizen pay for fuel every year,
- in Europe 75% go as tax revenue into the government's pocket, financing roads and many other useful things,
- in the U.S. nearly 90% goes to the pockets of the Saudis and Señor Chavez.
Choose yourself...

[Bill Cravener]

Dave, you at least haven't pulled to debate down to juvenile name calling, and menacing. It's no wonder US politics are so toxic.

Oh come off it son, you're the first one to bring this debate down to juvenile status. And I quote: "I don't see any reason to exclude the greedy baby-boomer generation. . ." That is a blatant insult to me and all those of my generation. You're not even a born citizen of this country so my opinion you haven't earned the right to make that statement fellow. I would suggest that you take a good look in the mirror, it was you that hopped off the turnip truck first pal, not I. So you go ahead and continue to stick that foot in your mouth, I'll be listening.

[baltoro]

Jochen.
You make an excellent point. I always wondered about the disparity in gasoline taxation schemes.

For American readers, here is an account of the history of Federal Gasoline Taxes: When Did the Federal Government Begin Collecting the Gas Tax?
And, here, is a Congressional Research Service review of U.S. Energy Taxation Policy: Energy Tax Policy: An Economic Analysis, 2005

The above report, while it discusses the major issues, is somewhat unrealistic as concerns long term economic stability. It actually has a section that addresses: Oil Import Dependence. But, the analysis is myopic and superficial. Here is an example:   
"The problem of vulnerability to embargoes and price shocks, which relates to dependence on imported oil from the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and other unstable foreign countries, is distinct from the problem of import dependence, and might be better addressed in a policy of stockpiling oil as is being done with the Strategic Petroleum Reserve"

...That's kinda like me saying I shall stockpile Natural Gas, by not farting,... :eek

[jj2007]

Strategic Petroleum Reserve ...

...That's kinda like me saying I shall stockpile Natural Gas, by not farting,... :eek

You hit the nail on the head :U

[Bill Cravener]

Off the cliff we go and we're dragging the rest of the world with us.

Cartoonist Kal Walters

[dedndave]

you can hardly blame the tea party - lol
try blaming the rich assholes, republicans, democrats, lawyers.....

[Bill Cravener]

Oh I most certainly do Dave! I watched the news last night and they interviewed four of the tea-bagger backed representatives. The last part of the interview they were in the house chapel holding each others hands in prayer to their god that the US might be saved. Scary shit man!! These tea bagger folks want to bring god into politics and I didn't sign up for that crap. Canada here I come! Edgar, you listening buddy? :bg

[dedndave]

my point was, Bill.....
the tea party is not in control - they are fringe - lol - easily ignored
the ones i listed are in control
you can't blame a party for something when they have noone in office   :P