archived past transactions (foreign newbie)

[Bunta]

   I'm interested in learning 16 bit assembler programming even though
I'm an XP user and quite ignorant about programming in general (belive me,
this  is  possible in some parts of the world).  Not wanting to give any
stupid  headaches  to  anybody, nor to show how stupid I really am to the
world,  I  would  like  to  obtain  the  archived file(s) to read the past
transactions  at  this  forum (I think I know how to handle text files in
general, how to grep for instance), but Archived Old Forum does not seem
to  be  working.  Could anyone please tell me how to enbale the Archived
Old  Forum  to function at the top page of this site:
http://www.oldboard.assemblercode.com/index.php
or how to get the zipped file(s) on this board?

Bunta
:'(

[BlackVortex]

If you are a complete beginner, you're better off reading and testing the iczelion tutorials.

Or if you actually want 16-bit programming, there are older assembly tutorials for DOS etc.

[Mark Jones]

Hello Bunta, one way to learn DOS 16-bit coding may be with this set of interactive tutorials:
http://www.btinternet.com/~btketman/tutpage.html

However, as BlackVortex mentioned, starting with modern 32-bit Windows assembler will be much easier. While it is commendable to "start at the beginning and learn 16-bit," that is notoriously quite difficult, and ultimately will provide little benefit from starting with 32-bit code (if that is what you wish to do eventually.) Some people still do write 16-bit code also, so if this is genuinely what you are after, then you are in the right place.

In either case, welcome to the forum. :U

[Bunta]

  Thank  you  very  much  for  your replies, handsome BlackVortex and
charming  Mark  Jones.  And sorry that I'm so late in responding.  I was
rather deeply thinking.  Really 16 bit programming? I wondered.  Yes. My
final answer is YES.  In fact, I'm not interested in Windows programming
at  all.   If  I decided to move on, leaving MS-DOS behind, my next step
will be UNIX.

   So  I think I'll stay here and will beg for your help.  In that case,
please  please  help  me.   I'll  come again with a concrete question or
problem.

   Thank you very much for your kind and welcoming messages. Those meant
a lot to me.  And your question WAS worth a serious thinking on my part.

[Bunta]

   I was inside myself too deeply, too deeply to see other people.  I'm sorry.
For the record, let me add a few more words here.

BlackVortex wrote:
> If you are a complete beginner, you're better off reading and testing
> the iczelion tutorials.

   This  is  basically  for  32-bit  coding, isn't it? I think I have to
learn how CPU work first ...  and I have many books on that in fact. But
I will try "The Art of Assembly" first. If you or anybody know something
similar, could you please give me the information?

Mark Jones recommended:
> http://www.btinternet.com/~btketman/tutpage.html

   Somehow  this  does  not work on my Japanized XP.  CMD or command.com
reacts and opens the console, but tutpage.exe (?) does not just respond???

Bunta

[jj2007]

Really 16 bit programming? I wondered.  Yes. My final answer is YES.  In fact, I'm not interested in Windows programming at  all.   If  I decided to move on, leaving MS-DOS behind, my next step will be UNIX.

Unix is 32 bit, like Windows. 16 bit means unnecessary fights with old-fashioned segment addressing etc.; I guess what you really need and want is 32 bit console programming. Here is a console program:

Code Select Expand

include \masm32\include\masm32rt.inc

.code
hw db "Hello World", 0

start:

print offset hw, 13, 10
print chr$("Masm32 is simpler than you thought, right?"), 13, 10

exit ; short form of invoke ExitProcess, 0

end start


[Bunta]

Thanks, Genderi, from Italy!

   Well,  thank  you  very  much  for  your  wise  advice.   Yes, you're
absolutely  right  in guessing that I'm interested in developing console
applications.   I,  in  fact, hate GUI.  "unnecessary fight with segment
addressing"!  Yes, yes, yes.  I know what you mean.  But I'm an oldtimer
for  one thing, and I'm in love with some 16bit editor, which is written
in  assembly  language.   I started (Sunday) programming with this macro
language  of  the  editor,  C-like  language  but  very,  very low-level
language so that we can actually write machine lanugage in macro!

Like this simpel example: I need this machine code exactly because I needed
to access a data in a different segment!

   ;----- reading
   ax=x, cx=si+1, si=0,        ;src
   bx=gz,         di=pr,      ;dest
               ;## HERE, AX,CX,SI,BX,DI are all
               ;variables for macro language as well,
   &i("$(8E,D8,8E,C3,F3,A4,C3)")   ;#### (4)strcpy #####
   &?("%s",pr) .

(source 4; strcpy)
;----- ax (==ds), si, bx (==es), di, cx (length)
;ds:si -> es:di, cx (bytes to be copied)

START:   mov   ds,ax
   mov   es,bx
   rep    movsb
   ret

Sort of crazy, and definitely very old-fashioned.  Still,  I simply cannot
leave this editor behind (grep, sed, awk, perl, ruby are the points of my
interest, that is text processing in general).  Then what's good about Windows
or 32 bit ?  No, I'm out of date, I know.

PS: I use 16 bit linker, so I could not compile hello.asm that you kindly
posted (my XP HD has c:\masm32 directory, though).

Thank you, from Japan

[MichaelW]

Bunta,

If you are determined to pursue 16-bit DOS programming, you could start by searching this (16-bit DOS Programming) forum. With 3216 posts and 490 topics you should be able to find plenty of examples and explanations.

[Bunta]

Dear MichaelW (moderator)

Thank you very much for this kind comment.  Yes!  This is what I asked for
at the beginning, and exactly what I should do.  Thank you.   determined Bunta.

> If you are determined to pursue 16-bit DOS programming, you could start
> by searching this (16-bit DOS Programming) forum.

[Mark Jones]

16-bit programming is sort-of a lost art. Originally, I wanted to get into 16-bit, about 20 years go. But it looked too hard, so I never persued it. Looking back now, it would have been possible, if I had more determination. Kudos to you for your determination. You can do it! :U

I recall seeing a website a few years ago, where 16-bit coding competitions were held. When I visited it, they were competing to see who could write the smallest DOS solver for Sudoku puzzles. This may be a great website to visit, if only to see how "the pros" do it. Hopefully someone more familiar with the website will reply with the address, as I forget now.

[FORTRANS]

Mark Jones wrote:

I recall seeing a website a few years ago, where 16-bit coding competitions were held. When I visited it, they were competing to see who could write the smallest DOS solver for Sudoku puzzles. This may be a great website to visit, if only to see how "the pros" do it. Hopefully someone more familiar with the website will reply with the address, as I forget now.

   There are a number of such, but the Hugi Compo had that specific one.

http://www.hugi.scene.org/compo/

has the current one.  I failed miserably at trying that one.  (Argh.)  And links to
the older ones.  There are some graphic contests (?) as well.

www.256b.com

Cheers,

Steve N.

[Bunta]

Thank you very much, Mark Jones, for cheering me up, and Fortrans, for
showing me the great website. I'm not really crazy as far as I know. I'm
just  ignorant  and  just a plain person, to whom PC is a e-mailing tool
and a hobby.  Actually I don't need this for my living, I guess. I think
I  can live without internet connection, perhaps.  Still, I seem to love
this  lost  art of 16-bit assembly language.  I'm not in a hurry at this
age....
Thank you, again. Your replies meant a lot to me. I mean this.

> There are a number of such, but the Hugi Compo had that specific one.
> http://www.hugi.scene.org/compo/

This was a real fun site. If you know more (less advanced one, hopefully,
---  almost an impossible request, since it's a "lost art!" :-), please,
please let me know.

PS; TASM is popular, I came to know.
Imagine all the people living ....

Bunta

[FORTRANS]

This was a real fun site. If you know more (less advanced one, hopefully,
---  almost an impossible request, since it's a "lost art!" :-)

   Well, I come across fun sites more or less at random (usually while looking
for something else).  But here is one I liked.

http://www.df.lth.se/~john_e/fr_gems.html

Enjoy,

Steve

[Bunta]

Dear Steve, thank you for the info.  I'll try to enjoy, but the gems
are kind of hard to understand ....:(

> http://www.df.lth.se/~john_e/fr_gems.html
> Enjoy,