Well, don't bother!! It's very limited, it's free, but it's very limited.
I've got a direct x 8.1 breakout with 2d sprites, and I haven't even gotten the thing to compile properly yet...
But with Visual c 6.0 or .NET it works just fine.
if you look in the provided docs you'll see the limitations, you have to purchase visual studio professional just to get ml.exe...masm!!!!!!!!!
oh well, life goes on,
later,
jeff c
p.s. by the way, sorry i haven't posted much lately, but I'm working on becoming a visual c++ 6.0 programmer for my NEWEST breakout, for which I have diverted BACK to direct x 8.1, using among other things...the ID3DXSprite Interface. WHEN I am finished, the game will appear on gamealchemy.com (hopefully) and it will have 1 free level (maybe more...) but like 10 to 100 levels of breakout fun for a small fee.
I'll let you all know. I am on vacation this week, and am still working on the program(s). Another idea that I had was to build an MASM version as well, but direct x stuff tricks me out. The best that I can do, it publish a c++ version with inline assembly code for the collision detection.
later again,
jeff c
:U
Quote from: OceanJeff32 on November 15, 2005, 10:54:21 AM
Well, don't bother!! It's very limited, it's free, but it's very limited.
It is not very limited, and it is not free, only the beta versions are free.
Quote from: OceanJeff32 on November 15, 2005, 10:54:21 AM
I've got a direct x 8.1 breakout with 2d sprites, and I haven't even gotten the thing to compile properly yet...
There are many language changes in C++ between 2003 and 2005, because they are conforming it to the CLS.
Quote from: OceanJeff32 on November 15, 2005, 10:54:21 AM
But with Visual c 6.0 or .NET it works just fine.
2005 is .NET. What kind of source code do you have that compiles in both native and .NET?
Quote from: OceanJeff32 on November 15, 2005, 10:54:21 AM
if you look in the provided docs you'll see the limitations, you have to purchase visual studio professional just to get ml.exe...masm!!!!!!!!!
Why do you care; you already have MASM.
Quote from: AeroASMIt is not very limited, and it is not free, only the beta versions are free.
It is out of beta now, and the final version is free for the first year (which sounds a bit like an extended public beta to me :green).
It's missing MFC and ATL. Also it doesn't contain the SDK but you can download that.
- Announcing the release of Visual Studio 2005 Express Editions (http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=126606&SiteID=1)
- ISO install images (http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/support/install/)
You can also preorder a trial version of Visual Studio Team suite:
https://www.tryvs2005.com/profile.aspx
QuoteI've got a direct x 8.1 breakout with 2d sprites, and I haven't even gotten the thing to compile properly yet...
But with Visual c 6.0 or .NET it works just fine.
I think I'm going to pass on Visual C++ 2005, it's really a mess. I tried the betas and was not impressed.
Visual C++ 2005 has a "new deployment model", read this (http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms235624.aspx) and this (http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/workshops/fusWSThirteen.htm), it's about the side-by-side DLL situation, with the runtime library etc. ::)
I have been monitoring this Visual C++ forum (http://forums.microsoft.com/msdn/showforum.aspx?forumid=29&siteid=1), people are having lots of problems with it.
I'm sticking with Visual C++ 2003 (and/or Pelle's C).
I still see no good reason to use Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition. I only see negatives. I currently use Visual C++ 2003 Standard Edition (and Pelles C).
It's tempting because it's free and it's new, so far I have resisited the temptation. I definitely wouldn't pay for the Visual Studio 2005 Standard or Professional Editions.
- What do you think about the Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition?
- What do you think about the Side-by-Side DLLs and the "new deployment model"?
- What do you think about Microsoft deprecating many of the ANSI Standard C Run-time Library functions?
I seem to be talking to myself here. ::)
Regarding Visual C++ 2005, if you want your native (non-managed) application to run on another machine, you must use Windows Installer or equivalent. This is required because of the new C Run-time Library being Side-by-Side DLLs, they must be installed and registered, they cannot just be copied to the system directory. Registering the Side-by-Side DLLs involves creating policies, manifests, and writing some keys to the registry. What a PITA.
Also, the Express Edition lacks the capability of creating a setup project (and you lack the redist folder, and vcredist_x86). This article shows how to work around that problem: Bootstrapper for the VC++ 2005 Redists (with MSI3.1) (http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/vcredists_x86.asp?print=true)
Using Side-by-Side DLLs is Microsoft's attempt to eliminate "DLL hell". I think they are just creating another type of hell. It also seems like they are forcing you into using Microsoft products. Nothing new there I guess.
Hi Greg,
That problem is resolved in the Full Pro Edition, cause you just can do a static link with the C++ runtime (that offcource will increase the executable's size),but unfortunately with the express edition to do that is from you custom batch build.
shaka_zulu,
Yes, you can link statically, but what if I don't want to do that? I shouldn't have to do that. It's a kludge, I expect better from Microsoft.
i'm agree, actually when was my first time using 2005's i was diassapointed as well. And I dont believe that 'Dll Hell' (as you've call it) will ends,no without static link. Maybe Microsoft are hopin' or they're just sure that their new runtimes (especially MSVCR80D.dll) to dominate after time ...
There actually IS a use for the express edition, it gets you the latest editions of CL, LINK, CVTRES and RC and all you have to do is pick your way through the DLLs to get it all to work. My approach was to install it, immediately overwrite my boot partition with a current disk image them run the binaries to find out which DLL(s) the binaries need. This seems to be the "useful" list from the express edition. One of the irritations of having it installed is it takes over all of the appropriate file extensions so you suddenly have everything appear in its IDE instead of what you had before.
09/23/2005 09:17a 111,616 rcdll.dll
09/23/2005 09:17a 30,720 rc.exe
09/23/2005 06:56a 31,936 cvtres.exe
09/23/2005 07:01a 14,528 dumpbin.exe
09/23/2005 07:01a 14,528 editbin.exe
09/23/2005 06:56a 14,008 lib.exe
09/23/2005 06:56a 724,152 link.exe
09/22/2005 11:22p 268 link.exe.config
09/22/2005 11:22p 438,272 msdis150.dll
09/23/2005 07:01a 82,616 nmake.exe
09/23/2005 07:29a 626,688 msvcr80.dll
09/23/2005 12:16a 172,032 mspdb80.dll
Hutch,
Have you tried to run an executable you created with VC 2005 on a machine that does not have Visual C++ 2005 installed? If I am not mistaken, you still have the problem of msvcr80.dll being a 'Side-by-Side' dll.
Greg,
I only used the listed binaries and masm to see if I could get the linker and the rest to work. The binaries seem OK but I found the IDE such a pig, I did not bother. Interestingly enough, the C compiler has very clean output when just used for building seperate modules. I get the impression from your comments that they are trying to close the usage of the VC2005 package so it cannot be used anywhere else.
Quote from: hutch-- on January 02, 2006, 10:49:14 PM
One of the irritations of having it installed is it takes over all of the appropriate file extensions so you suddenly have everything appear in its IDE instead of what you had before.
Won't an uninstall restore those? Or is M$ being impolite and not storing your previous settings :snooty:
Maybe a registry backup first... :bg
Hutch,
I don't want to install the VC++ 2005 Express IDE either. It can be installed along side VC++ 2003 but so far I have resisted. Like I said before, I tried the betas and wasn't impressed. I have also been doing some reading about Visual C++ 2005 and it's "new features". I just don't like the direction Microsoft is going. Although I may get dragged there, kicking and screaming. :lol If you haven't already, you should read some of the articles I posted links to above.
Thanks for the link Greg, I just read the bootstrapper article and laughed. All the more reason to write in C only or preferrably assembler. I am blessed as well in that I keep the 2 current PowerBASIC compilers handy which I do my higher level code with and none of this stuff requires the never ending list of changing DLLs.
Zooba,
iIf you trust a Microsoft installation and removal, you are a braver man than I am. I actually paid for the Acronis software so I could protect myself from stuff like this.
I ran across a couple more articles about this "Side-by-Side" MSVCR80.DLL situation.
Visual Studio 2005 DLL Hell (http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?postid=261)
Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS? (http://blogs.msdn.com/martynl/archive/2005/10/13/480880.aspx)
Hutch,
If you want a list of dependencies you might try the pe explorer free download. Just load a dll or exe and it wil generate a list of the dependencies for you. Well, for 30 days anyway. When I am flush I might buy it. I have attached the dependency list for the windbg.exe
because I am playing with it now. It takes longer to hit the keys than this program takes to scan the file and you don't have to over-write your partitions or fuss with anything. It is at heaventools.com they are not my relatives or anything.
[attachment deleted by admin]
When I uninstalled c++ express, I no longer have permision to set the .c extension even though I am the administrator and the only one to use the computer. vcc express must have done something to the registry. I used the supplied uninstall program and it reported no problems. If I assign a text editor for example, windows will remove the assignment the next time the \tools menu is opened.
What a headache and you can get the command line compiler without this headache in the vcc toolkit but I found out too late.
One simple sollution for that is to delete the .c class from the registry and then to make another assignment. I.e. remove HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.c and HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\cfile. They will be created "clean" by windows itself, don't worry.
Hey Shaka, thanks. I was so pissed about this I could have ripped Bills lungs out
I think Hutch should give you a fourth star. :U
When I tested it out, i first updated my boot disk image to a file, installed it, hated it and re-ran the boot image so it was back as it has been then ratted through the binaries which are in fact very good. The version of CL.EXE works well and the default LINK does not arbitrarily align at 16k. The IDE was a slow bad mannered pig and it hogged all of the viable file extensions but thats nothing new from Microsoft where their recent concepts are trash in comparison to the binaries supplied.
:bg
It wasn't what i expected neither. Not to mention that my PC suddenly appear to be too old for everything to go on normally with VS.
Shaka,
Nothing new about that, either, as I am sure you know. Over the years I have watched us get faster CPUs and then slower programs that hog the speed in a repeating cycle. The people of today are no longer true programmers when they use Direct X and the like. They are forced to work within a mold and I would never tolerate that. Sorry, Greg, just how 'I' feel.
Paul
That 's right Paul. Growing up hardware requierements, bigger money earnings for both - software and hardware developers. That is the Sad True for low earnings people on the other side...
Quote from: PBrennickSorry, Greg, just how 'I' feel.
No problem. I love to program in MASM, but I don't limit myself to it only. I think it's a good thing to be "multilingual".
shaka_zulu,
Yes, Visual Studio 2005 is a slow, bloated pig. How it hijacked the file associations pissed me off, and I don't like the "Side-by-Side" DLL crap with the C Run-Time Library. It essentially means your native apps need the .NET Framework to run. :tdown I have been using Visual Studio 2003 or Pelle's for C programming.
PBrennick,
Quote from: PBrennickThe people of today are no longer true programmers when they use Direct X and the like. They are forced to work within a mold and I would never tolerate that. Sorry, Greg, just how 'I' feel.
Ya know, the more I though about that, the more it irked me. I tried to let it go but I couldn't. It was directed at me.
So according to you I am not a true programmer? I suppose if I use the Windows API I am not a true programmer? I suppose if I use the C run-time library I am not a true programmer? I suppose if I use a language other than assembly I am not a true programmer? I suppose if I use the high-level constructs in MASM I'm not a true programmer?
I have never written a program that uses DirectX, and if I had there's nothing wrong with that at all.
I can do the PUSH and CALL type MASM programming, but most of the time I choose not to.
I am really getting tired of the condescending "assembly extremist" attitude. There's a lot more to programming than low-level assembly language.
So from what I gather I installed a piece of junk, and I thought I was getting something for free :eek
Hi Greg,
Paul didn't wrote them to offend anyone here. As I guess , he doesn't like programming with Direct X, this is probably what he wanted to tell.
Vortex,
Yeah, I suppose. I wouldn't have thought twice about it if he had left my name out of it.
zurieltx,
It's not that bad if you can put up with the items mentioned above. I couldn't, I uninstalled it. I would suggest you get the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003, but it is no longer available for download from Microsoft since they released Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition. :tdown Pelle's C is a very good compiler and IDE. Pelle's Assembler is very good too. Pelle said it would be integrated into Pelle's C in the next release. :thumbu
Greg,
I have Pelle's C :U
Thanks for the tips, The visual express does seem to be kind of bloated LOL.
Miles
Its a shame the VCTOOLKIT2003 has been removed, it worked fine and produced good code. The VC2005 express edition actually does have classy binaries with CL, LINK etc ... but its wrapped up in such an appallingly bad IDE bundled with a mountain of .NET junk that its hardly worth he 340 meg download when its also time limited in its usage.
Pelle's C is a good choice that only ever gets better with each release and the next release will have his first release version of POASM which is shaping up as a giant killer.