If you have a skill theres jobs out there. Get to work! :bg
"Particularly surprising was the rise in U.S. companies reporting hiring difficulty. In the 2010 survey, only 14 percent of companies reported problems filling jobs. Now the percentage has nearly quadrupled."
America's Tough Jobs Are Getting Even Tougher to Fill (http://www.ere.net/2011/08/25/americas-tough-jobs-are-getting-even-tougher-to-fill/)
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/jobs.jpg)
We see it here as well Bill, as the jobs get shipped overseas the workforce lose the work ethic and the skills that go with it.
I find some humour in the fact that I live in an old city area that is now substantially gentrified but full of people who are fascinated that I can do up a nut and bold, lay bricks, weld metals and generally do useful things. Most of the folks around here are professionals but the real loss is the loss of skills and this is mainly bad politics, economic theory and the quick and dirty buck from cheap imports that many companies have gone into.
Steve,
I know a good many younger folks that can't find jobs but it is not because there is a lack of jobs here in America it's because those that can't find a job have no skills other then laboring as in manufacturing laborers. There are many labor jobs if you're willing to work for pennies as the illegal aliens do picking fruits and vegetables but even if it were not for illegals Americans refuse to work for pennies. You got to have a skill, all the better, have more then one skill.
There are plenty of jobs out there if you do have a knowledgeable skill. Myself, I have two skills that make me money, my computer knowledge and the trade taught to me by my father, that being in the furniture upholstery trade. Between the two I have to turn work away because there is more then I can handle and that is the truth. If you have skills you have a job. For example look in my areas local paper and there are many jobs available for truckers, machinist, plumbers, electricians, welders, equipment operators, etc. This day and age if you want a job you've got to have a needed skill.
At the moment I'm only working 4 hours on most days, as their is certainly a 'lack of work' for 'pale face' males in this country.
I would work a full a day if there was work, but affirmative action and other stupid racist ideals, that I thought we're moving away, from are still prevalent.
The knock-on effect is that the economy is in a bad state, and our unemployment figures are close to 50% - Our gov fudges these figures to a lower level.
I laugh when other countries complain about 10-20% unemployment, and would like to move to such unemployment levels
:wink
The jobs market figures are such a simplistic beast.... Usually the arguement swigns between the lazy (business perspective) and the lack of jobs (worker perspective).... Rarely does it take into account that some jobs are menial subsidised to create employment, some jobs are unethical existing only because a value can be added to them and they do not have the condemnation exposure of a 'profession' such as prostitution.... Many worthwhile jobs are ignored and left undone because there is no money to subsidise them.... People are forced to 'work' in order to 'live'.... The failure of our system is that people account for money and not what they do....
i don't know why you are putting a smiley face on it, Bill - lol
if there are engineering positions out there that are hard to fill, it's because they want to pay you a mickey-d salary
Well a mickey-d salary is better then a mickey-no salary in my book. :bg
sorry - i am not going to work for minimum wage so some already-too-rich a-hole can sit on a beach
I started a PT job this week at a major retailer.
There are jobs, especially if you don't mind starting from the bottom. :-)
I am working as IT staff but I doubt if I will be able to hold on after 40 as IT jobs are generally for young people in today's world.
Quote from: Vortex on October 27, 2011, 08:01:36 PM
IT jobs are generally for young people in today's world.
Did you mean 'kiddy scripters' :lol
In the UK I have watched IT go from needing people who really understood what they were doing, to being reduced to needing those with the most letters after his name after "studying" a bunch of "qualifications" that when looked at a bit closer are not worth the paper they are written on. It started out with the intention of furthering knowledge in a very specific area, but is now just a money making scam for the benefit of the "provider" and "certification body".
I wouldn't get a job in IT now as I don't have the necessary letters after my name, despite the fact that I could probably run circles around most doing the job. If you understand the systems from an engineering perspective, who cares about the detail of a specific system? You should be able to learn that stuff as you go along. Most don't seem to even know how to write code for the systems they are in charge of. All they know is how to push certain buttons in a specific piece of software, with the fall-back of "if x, y and z doesn't work call tech support". I haven't seen posts for real programming jobs advertised in years. It is mainly web development that is sought, and I want nothing to do with that!! You are left at the mercy of the browser vendor's whim, or what is popular that month.
The silly thing is, no matter how things are done, the underlying tech is 30 years old! It is still TCP/IP, it is still routing, it is still high performance networking, it is still using the SMTP protocol, etc... yet despite all this and the stupid requirements asked of glorified sys admins, the same basic screw-ups are made. Buffer overflows, memory leaks, etc.. have not been addressed. Despite all the security qualifications people are expected to hold in large corporations you still get the likes of Sony making fundamental errors with system security. You still get corporations failing to use even basic security systems or implement more complex ones properly.
There is a big ass elephant in the room that people are not addressing, and it is that despite all the fancy paperwork, progress is going in reverse! We need to purge the technical world of those who can't do and get back the old school engineers and technicians who actually knew something worth knowing and could do something with that knowledge to actually improve things and make them better.
I've gone on a bit of a rant here, but this is how I feel. Maybe it is misguided, but from where I am this is the way things seem to be sinking. :(
they get what they pay for
if they pay mickey-d salaries to IT guys, they will get mickey mouse IT results - lol
that is a good thing
i am finding that i can get the higher pay because they can hire me and get rid of 3 other guys
which kinda still sux because, now, i have to work my ass off :lol
Quote from: dedndave on October 28, 2011, 01:59:54 AM
they get what they pay for
if they pay mickey-d salaries to IT guys, they will get mickey mouse IT results - lol
that is a good thing
i am finding that i can get the higher pay because they can hire me and get rid of 3 other guys
which kinda still sux because, now, i have to work my ass off :lol
Try to think +.
Any job is better than no job.
I disagree that "any job" is better than no job. Taking the wrong jobs (at least over here) can be seen to be as bad as being unemployed. It raises questions like "why can't you get a job in your chosen profession?", and then the company asking the question doesn't want to hire you as they get strange ideas in their head.
There is also an increasing incidence of people being listed as "over qualified". How the hell does that work? I think the real problem is the employee is too smart for the employer, and the employer (read: line manager) feels threatened. Some argue it is because they think the task is too menial for someone who knows what they are doing. My response to that is: "if I didn't want the frikken' job I wouldn't have applied!". It is totally screwed up!
I was reading about Occupy Oakland(Oakland,California) and the Iraq Vet that was hit by a tear gas cannister. There is now talk of a general strike in Oakland. I had concidered that this might happen with the protesters,and this may trigger something bigger nationally if people get really pissed at the actions of the police. National strikes have happened in other countrys(France for one). Even a single day national strike could bring the economy to its knees. I don't think they could get that many people to strike because many are worried about getting laid off or fired allready. BUT,you never know when people get panicky or just plain fed up.
If I remember it correctly they did that in Italy and Greece already.
Actully there is now this.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-launching-first-nationwide-general-strike-in-america-since-1946.html
Another point I think about is most people today just assum that the protections and "Rights" of workers will always be there. These "rights" came about over many years mostly through Unions pushing for them. People died in the process of the unions fighting the bosses. Your 8 hour day,your 40 hour week used to be you work 80 hours a week 12 hours a day(No overtime) 6 days a week.
No medical coverage,no disability insurance,and you could be fired for no reason. Work has come a long way,but you must always remember what is,may not always be. Your wage is dependent on how much they need you. If there is a glut of workers,then companys can call the shots,if there is a shortage of workers,then workers call the shots.
Well I have to side with Magnum here "any job is better then no job". Why? Because the utilities must be paid and I must eat. I haven't a wife that works, parents to leach off of or kids bringing in any money, besides I'm too proud to live off the State or beg for food. So if I were in such a position that I needed a job I'd take most anything. Even if I had to shovel shit in a cattle barn so long as I could continue to exist. Fortunately I don't have to, especially at my age, I don't think my back could take shoveling shit all day. :bg
Currently I leach off my parents.... I never used to, left home at 17, got my own place, started many businesses for many people.... I'm currently training to be a teacher, not in my primary expertise simply because I can not afford the exams and can not get credit.... I can not claim off the state and have only for 5 weeks of my life when I was younger.... I'm one of many I'm sure that can not be listed in the 'jobless total' figures smply because the system has so many holes they cannot register to claim benefits....
We have a free advice service here in the UK called citizens advice beaureux.... They advised me that my best option (with £15,000 debts) was to leave the country and not come back for 5 years :lol....
Having started many businesses I am well aware that things 'work' for very abstract reasons, often things that should work (in a logical sensible world) do not.... Those that benefit often do, not because they work the hardest but simply because they are on the bleeding edge where the money is focused.... Kinda like single issue elections I guess.... Or Apple being a subcontracting *marketing company* :lol
Anyways.... In my book those who take it on the chin and decide who to work for and what jobs to do (at their own cost) are those to be commended.... Moreover if those people continue to volunteer and do worthwhile jobs for free while they have no paid jobs.... These are the people we should entrust our societies to!
Business people/bankers will tell you they should be highly paid because they risk everything, business/banking is all about risk....
Let me tell you.... Risk is an elderly person or a lone parent deciding not to heat their home in the winter so that they can afford food (or vice versa) while a fat cat energy company boss earns enough to heat 2000 homes each year and is healthy enough to survive without the heating....
Still.... I'm hoping I wont be living at home much longer.... Almost as much as my parents :lol....
PETER,
Your honesty is appalling,...
Quote from: baltoro on October 28, 2011, 05:52:41 PM
PETER,
Your honesty is appalling,...
Yes I know.... I certainly wont get a job as a politician :lol
if you are willing to accept sub-standard salaries, then you become part of the problem
i learned early in my career that if you are willing to work for X, they are going to pay you X
if you want to make more than X, you have to refuse to work for X
by accepting X, you create an imbalance in the market, which hurts everyone in that job catagory
From long ago (the middle 1970s) I knew the problem of being over qualified, I am a toolmaker by trade and when the arse fell out of the engineering trade in the middle 1970s here in OZ I applied for all sorts of low end engineering jobs but kept being told I was over qualified for the job. In my trade the job market was ruthless, if the work dropped you went out the door so you went for the money and kept an eye on ho much work they had and when it was getting low you ditched them and went elsewhere.
I eventually solved the problem by starting a business and have never gone near the job market since. The business fed me for about 10 years, software fed me for about another 10 years and the stock market has almost fed me for the last 10 years and at my age I don't have another career left to start before I hit the arbitrary retirement age.
Quote from: dedndave on October 28, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
if you are willing to accept sub-standard salaries, then you become part of the problem
i learned early in my career that if you are willing to work for X, they are going to pay you X
if you want to make more than X, you have to refuse to work for X
by accepting X, you create an imbalance in the market, which hurts everyone in that job catagory
Totally agree! All these people going for "Modern Apprenticeships" are not realizing that it is just a legal loophole to pay less than minimum wage for work that should often be paying more. Needless to say that it gets the unemployment figures down a bit for the younger age groups but when the period expires they are out the door again to make way for the next lot who are begging for work at any cost.
i can see a point in not hiring an MBA to flip burgers :P
if the guy is any good in the business field, he will be gone as soon as he gets a better position - obviously
if he isn't any good in the business field (and still has an MBA), he isn't going to be any good at flipping burgers, either - lol
no matter how you run the burger joint, you only have room for one manager
it's not like all the employees can aspire to that single position
although, i am sure some employers may lead them all on :P
Quote from: hutch-- on October 28, 2011, 06:46:49 PM
From long ago (the middle 1970s) I knew the problem of being over qualified, I am a toolmaker by trade and when the arse fell out of the engineering trade in the middle 1970s here in OZ. . .
Steve,
Tool & Die is big business here in PA and as you know I worked for a Tool & Die company for about seven years until I reached the age of about 54 when they replaced me with a much younger fellow. It really is a young persons trade where you need to be able to put in 10 to 12 hour days. As I said before there's a need for machinists of all types especially those that are trained in CNC. Companies can't find enough folks to feel the jobs when it comes to CNC operators. PA also has numerous trade schools who are now training for the natural gas boom here in PA do to the Marcellus Shale industry that's happening here but you've got to have a trade skill such as electrician, plumbing and pipe fitting, welders are in big demand, big equipment operators, machinists of or sorts and also trucking. They're not big paying jobs like say an engineer might make but its a decent living if you're willing to work.
Quote from: Astro on October 28, 2011, 02:25:29 PM
I disagree that "any job" is better than no job. Taking the wrong jobs (at least over here) can be seen to be as bad as being unemployed. It raises questions like "why can't you get a job in your chosen profession?", and then the company asking the question doesn't want to hire you as they get strange ideas in their head.
There is also an increasing incidence of people being listed as "over qualified". How the hell does that work? I think the real problem is the employee is too smart for the employer, and the employer (read: line manager) feels threatened. Some argue it is because they think the task is too menial for someone who knows what they are doing. My response to that is: "if I didn't want the frikken' job I wouldn't have applied!". It is totally screwed up!
It's a fact that at least 7 people apply for every job available.
That means that even if everybody wanted a job, there would not be enough.
HR managers have told me that they see low paying jobs included on professional resumes.
My resume includes jobs as chemical lab techs, technical writer, retail manager, as well as ones such as a meat clerk.
When you have bills to pay, pride has no place. :-)
For certain jobs, I "dumb" down my resume for the reason that you mentioned.
Quote from: hutch-- on October 26, 2011, 12:17:54 PM
We see it here as well Bill, as the jobs get shipped overseas the workforce lose the work ethic and the skills that go with it.
I find some humour in the fact that I live in an old city area that is now substantially gentrified but full of people who are fascinated that I can do up a nut and bold, lay bricks, weld metals and generally do useful things. Most of the folks around here are professionals but the real loss is the loss of skills and this is mainly bad politics, economic theory and the quick and dirty buck from cheap imports that many companies have gone into.
Hutch,
Is there a recent problem in the forum? I am in the Colosseum and read this thread. At the bottom of the page I clicked on Jjump to Colosseum expecting to read another thread in the Colosseum, but instead I jump back to the MASM Forum. This appears to be something recent.
Dave.
Dunno Dave, it all works exactly as it has for years from this end. I live in Australia which is a long way from the UK and I have no problems at all.
Quote from: anunitu on October 28, 2011, 03:01:27 PM
Another point I think about is most people today just assum that the protections and "Rights" of workers will always be there. These "rights" came about over many years mostly through Unions pushing for them. People died in the process of the unions fighting the bosses. Your 8 hour day,your 40 hour week used to be you work 80 hours a week 12 hours a day(No overtime) 6 days a week.
No medical coverage,no disability insurance,and you could be fired for no reason. Work has come a long way,but you must always remember what is,may not always be. Your wage is dependent on how much they need you. If there is a glut of workers,then companys can call the shots,if there is a shortage of workers,then workers call the shots.
At one time unions served a good purpose.
But since they generate no income, their only interest is getting people to join.
They don't provide any real benefits, so when I had the opportunity, I did not join.
When the unions began,it was mainly the workers themselves who ran them,then there were managers who really had to real connection to the working trades. The unions became more about the union bosses,and less concern for the workers themselves.
People died in the early years when the unions were forming. There were strike breakers, that attacked the picketting workers,the companys would hire the strike breakers to intimadate the striking workers. Every good thing can over time become a negitive force.
The companys want the most,for the least money,and with the beginnings of the unions there was a certain balance for a time. The unions pushed for better conditions,but then became overly conditioned to forceing the companys to a point that the companys pushed back.
In the present day,the wheel is turning backwards,and many things that American workers concider "Rights"(rights won through unions) may not always be there(8 hour day,40 hour week,overtime, workers protections(safe working conditions))
The real solution is moderation on both sides,and concideration of the human condition.
what turned good unions into bad unions was the "pension funds"
it didn't take long for crooked people to see there was a lot of dirty money to be made
if there were some way to seperate pension fund management from union management, unions might be good again
one other problem is that essentially unskilled laborers tend to be grossly over-paid
assembly-ine workers in Detroit come to mind - some of them make doctors salaries with a 7th grade education
this happens because promotions and raises are forced to those with time-in-grade,
rather than rewarding good performance or skill
There was a form of capitalism in the old Soviet that appealed to me, people who had nice clean jobs in pleasant places got paid peanuts while those who did dirty hard jobs in unpleasant circumstances got paid good money for doing it.
Now this cashed out that if you were a professional working in a clean air conditioned (and probably heated) office performing pleasant tasks with nice friendly people you got paid peanuts while some poor bastard cleaning up sewerage in a mental hospital while being abused by loonies got paid a lot more money. Funny to find such a perfect supply and demand rule being applied in an old communist country. :P
Maybe there is no lack of jobs, but many of them are sooo horrible....
For example, there is a new member called jorgea (jorgesalarcon@gmail.com) whose job is to register in strange fora like ours, create a signature with all kinds of plain horrible advertisements in it, and then the poor guy has to read all posts and try to create imaginative replies :dazzled:
Honestly, I don't envy people for such dirty jobs.
Tomatoes, raw carrots, beans, nuts, eggs, lean beef, broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, fish, and I would add to that lean pork, green beans, snap peas, red wine, dark ale, coffee and assembly language. My goodness, no wonder at the age of 60 I'm still so debonair!! :bg
JJ,
His signature has changed and so will his ability to post if there is any more nonsense. :bg
I think one issue is minimum wage. It seems that since this was introduced, the "menial" tasks such as cleaning are paid minimum wage, and they stay there.
Despite the minimum wage, for years in the catering industry here in the UK, waiters/waitresses were paid e.g. £2/hr and the rest of their salary was expected to be made up from the tips they'd collect. This has only just been overturned, and now they "only" earn minimum wage, with the tips going to the company profits and not the workers.
The minimum wage just went up for those over 21 to £6.08/hr. This in a country where rents are in excess of £1000/month (USD $1500/mo.) and gas costs £1.35/L ($9.20/imp. gallon).
How far does the average UK worker travel to work and back there in the UK Astro?
Americans travel roughly 30 miles round trip to work and back. Currently regular gas is $3.40 per gallon here in north-western PA but gas prices vary greatly across the country. I sometimes must travel 60 or more miles round trip to visit a client. At UK's price of over $9 per gallon I'd go broke even though I drive a small fuel efficient vehicle. My brother and I have a 2010 Chevy 3-quarter ton delivery van that loves fuel and I just can't imagine paying $9 bucks a gallon to fill its large fuel tank.
Quote from: Bill CravenerHow far does the average UK worker travel to work and back there in the UK
I don't have stats, but the problem is the driving is more congested, less direct, and the roads are smaller. The US has much better arterial road systems, at least if you're west of MA.
A lot of people on the south coast of the UK would commute via train into London, so figure that's around 50+ Miles each way, plus whatever distance they are from the nearest station. Others will drive similar distances.
A lot of the smaller towns/villages are of the order of 10-15 miles from major cities, where the jobs are more likely situated. I used to go 13 miles as the crow flies, the fastest route was of the order of 17 miles, and would take 30 minutes with little traffic. That could easily double if it got snarled up. In the US I can get twice that distance in 30 minutes.
if you get one of those little cars that gets bunches of miles per gallon, you can see all of England on a tank of gas :lol
(don't tell the wife i said that)
over here in the states, things are much more spread out
and, we drive cadiliacs and SUV's :P