It would seem that "Main Street" USA is starting to be heard even in spite of the wall of obstruction by both Wall Street and the US media. Having recently seen yet another documentary on how the sub-prime lending scam was sanitised through he insurance giant AIG to look like AAA rated investments that were in fact dangerous money losers that fleeced millions of ordinary Americans of their life savings, superannuation and so on, maybe we will get to see more criminals like Bernie Maddof getting dragged through the courts on their way to jail.
I am pleased to see Americans standing up for their rights after years of being shafted by this collection of greedy bastards lining their pockets and I hope the regulatory bodies that allowed it to happen go down with them.
I have been watching this from the start,and was hoping it would grow,and it seems to be doing just that. If they find one leader with a powerful enough message that can't be co-oppted by the powers that be,or distoreted by the Media it may become something that can make the right kind of change. The problem with any movement is it "May" spark radicals into doing very negitive things. There are enough "Crazy" radicals here in this country that only see violance as a solution(like Tim Mcvigh(sp)). feelings are running very high,and when they said something about class warfare(the two partys) it may come to the point of actual Class warfare,and violance is NEVER a solution,it only makes things worse.
Hi,
According to some commentators, the lack of a leader is the protesters
strength. If no one says something specific, you can't disagree. Keep
it general and there are enough disgruntled people to join in.
Cheers,
Steve
Is better a decentralized organization (like Anonymous). Or like the guerrillas. If there is no head, an organization is more difficult to kill.
Is good that they are going against the Banksters. But The problem is more is more of globalization than in the Banksters. Globalization is condensing the wealth of the world on a few.
I hope not, but I fear that at the end this will end as it always ends. They give a cookie to the crowds who then disperse. Meanwhile things continue to be business as usual.
Did you know that thinks banks are holding thousands of properties without renting or selling them? The reason is so that property values remain artificially high. If they didn't receive the bail out, they couldn't do crap like this. Putting 99% of the population on wage slavery.
It took U.S. national news some three weeks before they got around to giving any attention to what's going on and it appears to be spreading across the country as well.
Wall Street Mocks Protesters By Drinking Champagne 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2PiXDTK_CBY)
Quote from: Bill Cravener on October 06, 2011, 09:37:07 AM
It took U.S. national news some three weeks before they got around to giving any attention to what's going on and it appears to be spreading across the country as well.
Wall Street Mocks Protesters By Drinking Champagne 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2PiXDTK_CBY)
I like one of the comments on that video:
"The French aristocrats did similar things. A year later they were facing the guillotine."
The only thing that can counter greed is fear. Unless this people face fear, nothing will change.
And why should they change, they can do anything and if things go tough, daddy government will save them. Plus they get the police (paid by the workers) on their side.
Then again, the king of France also have the police on their side.
History have shown that the police is there to protect the establishment and not to protect the people. Irrelevant if the establishment is on the side of justice or not. They will protect whoever is in power, irrelevant if its Jesus or Satan. And in a world that money is king, police will protect whoever controls the money.
A pity there is no FDR on the presidency. It would be interesting to see the military protect the people from the police once more.
cops are having a hard time making ends meet, too
it will be interesting to see how things go, knowing they are likely to be sympathetic with the protesters :P
I have noticed the difference in media coverage from one country to another. The protests have been getting reasonably good coverage in the local OZ and UK media but I bothered to have a look at CNN and they were trying to downplay the protests without particularly reporting the grievances that the protesters have. Lets hope someone is sharpening the guillotine blade now unless it works better to have it blunt, jagged and messy. :P
that's because ted turner is one of the rich fuks that doesn't want it to get coverage :bg
Nah, too much entertainment on TV for people to really revolt.
As long as people have a happy place to go, the majority will not revolt. Entertainment is the reason that people on today's USA allow more abuses than the ones that they had on 1776. Cut cable and you will have the recipe of a revolution. Which is angry people with too much time on their hands and little to lose.
This can be fixed by just legislation. Some examples:
- Double the tax for properties that have not being used or rented over a year. This would force banks to either sell them or rent them.
- Instead of taxing income based on work more than income base on gambling (err, investment), do the opposite make the people that are actually working pay less taxes than the people that are just gambling.
- Offer an armistice to people that have too much student loans debt. (You cannot declare bankruptcy, thus you are basically condemned to be a wage slave). Basically free their interest until they can find a job. Right now you need to have your payments on time in order to qualify for this.
- Create public hospitals to server those who cannot afford health insurance. BTW: This is a lot cheaper than the proposed Obama care that will just higher the price of health. I know, we had this system in Puerto Rico for decades, and we change to the stupid card system. Now everything is more expensive for everyone.
- On those public hospitals, allow doctors to work under the hospital insurance with a limited liability (thus getting legal predators out of the equation). If malpractice is an issue, make it punishable by time in prison instead of lawsuits. (thus lousy doctors get out of the equation).
- Foment cooperatives instead of corporations.
sounds nice
but, i don't know of any legislatures that would push something like that through
Hi,
A "Talk of the Nation" segment that discusses the (among
other things) the media's response. Snarky was one comment.
<g>
Occupy Wall Street (http://www.npr.org/2011/10/06/141122858/could-wall-st-protests-re-launch-liberal-movement)
Hope you enjoy.
Cheers,
Steve N.
Quote from: dedndave on October 06, 2011, 09:47:53 PM
sounds nice
but, i don't know of any legislatures that would push something like that through
You are right.
I always felt that the voting system need a "None of the above" place to check. And if the majority vote none of the above, new elections need to be made with none of the candidates presented.
A second alternative would be have a +1 and -1 for each candidate. Thus for every +1 you get one vote. For every -1 you loose a vote.
At the end the main problem of democracy is that the vote of a fool have the same weight as the vote of the informed. Thus the fools with tribe mentality will always be the one that decide to elect people that do not give a shit about them.
QuoteAt the end the main problem of democracy is that the vote of a fool have the same weight as the vote of the informed.
Thus the fools with tribe mentality will always be the one that decide to elect people that do not give a shit about them.
that's part of the deal called "freedom"
otherwise, we'd be arguing over who decides who is informed and who isn't
not only do we have the freedom of speach and the power to vote, but we have the right to be stupid, too :P
I guess we can all agree that assembler programmers should have ten votes or so. Except for the trolls, of course :8)
QuoteI always felt that the voting system need a "None of the above" place to check. And if the majority
vote none of the above, new elections need to be made with none of the candidates presented.
i like this one - and it has some possiblity of being seen as constitutional
the other ideas would not even be considered
Quote from: xanatose on October 07, 2011, 04:08:41 PM
At the end the main problem of democracy is that the vote of a fool have the same weight as the vote of the informed. Thus the fools with tribe mentality will always be the one that decide to elect people that do not give a shit about them.
I feel compelled to point out that the democracy we have now is
not what the founding fathers set up.
to be honest, the ones that really screw us (as far as electing presidents) are the democratic and republican parties
they select the candidates - not us
i always find myself choosing between "the lesser of two evils" - that is hardly democracy in action :'(
I wish the masses would realize that the only true vote they have is what they do with their money; waiting for politicans, left or right, to make a difference is a waste of time. It's sensless to sit around protesting wall street, bank bailouts, and the disappearing middle class while at the same time you are contributing to a 401K, paying back a car loan, and buying all chinese-made clothes. Wall Street can survive a bunch of people sitting around yelling; it can't survive everyone pulling their money out. If you don't like stock market greed, don't buy stock, don't put your money into banks that invest in the market, and don't buy products from publicly traded companies. No company is big enough or has enough political lobbying to exist without anyone buying their crap.
-r
yah - i am sure the wall st people are sitting at home, doing business as usual online
the ones that go to work on wall st are not the problem, anyways
the ones we need to target are the wealthy that don't go to work at all, including politicians
Funny, there are a lot people there under 30 still living with mommy and daddy. Never had to struggle. Some, never even had a job yet.. They are students. WAHHHH, people make money and LOTS of it get over it that is life. Wall street is NOT the root of the evil, it GOVERNMENT. Go protest in Washington.
Sure banks are adding fees upon fees from everything from using THEIR/others ATMs, fees for using Debit Cards are the new thing now. That is life. What the government SHOULD of done before any bailout/tax breaks, was to get a pair of balls and say, NO.. take a million dollar cut in your yearly bonus (for doing shit), get rid of some fees or lower some fees (to help the little guys) Wanna create jobs again? Tell em to STOP shipping jobs over seas. Tell them their main headquarters HAS to be in THIS country.
Yeah, I don't like what banks and large companies turned into today, but not their fault. It is government. As long as they can "donate" to their favorite candidate, then this crap will continue. Go protest Washington
Quote from: Gunner on October 09, 2011, 08:08:47 PM
Funny, there are a lot people there under 30 still living with mommy and daddy. Never had to struggle. Some, never even had a job yet.. They are students. WAHHHH, people make money and LOTS of it get over it that is life. Wall street is NOT the root of the evil, it GOVERNMENT. Go protest in Washington.
Sure banks are adding fees upon fees from everything from using THEIR/others ATMs, fees for using Debit Cards are the new thing now. That is life. What the government SHOULD of done before any bailout/tax breaks, was to get a pair of balls and say, NO.. take a million dollar cut in your yearly bonus (for doing shit), get rid of some fees or lower some fees (to help the little guys) Wanna create jobs again? Tell em to STOP shipping jobs over seas. Tell them their main headquarters HAS to be in THIS country.
Yeah, I don't like what banks and large companies turned into today, but not their fault. It is government. As long as they can "donate" to their favorite candidate, then this crap will continue. Go protest Washington
Sorry, but it makes no sense. If Government where the only problem then the problem would be local only to the USA and not on global scale. Money is condensing on a few worldwide, and not only in the USA.
Banks decide the value of currencies. For each currency pair they post 2 prices, One is "I will buy each at this price" the other is "I will sell each at this price". The only deciding factor on those prices is whatever each bank decide. Thus currencies are based on nothing but how the bankis feel. It used to be that the note you carry in your pocket was backed up by gold. Now they are not backed up by anything. The Federal Reserve is just a private organization that creates money from thin air in the USA. And if about as Federal as Federal Express. But almost all other countries do the same.
We do not really live on capitalism. We live on a rigged game that is the illusion of capitalism. As long as one party can create money from thin air (well electrical signals), the system will always be rigged. Governments have just been duped by the banking cartels and the Wall street guys are just one part of this deception.
Why we do not go back to the gold standard? Because Fort Knox is most likely empty. If is empty, a hyperinflation would occur. Meaning that tomorrow a big mac might cost $2,000. Needless to say that this would create a civil war. Thus, Government is stuck in the BS created by the bankers.
It is the job of government/religion to contemplate the moral fabric of society.... This is the 'joke' profession as although these people make the laws that shape the rest of society man always 'plays god' in this role....
Money is like gravity.... It is the job of banks to distribute the money *risk* in the form of loans to companies who will employ people to do respectable and worthwhile jobs for the community.... Unfortunately the banks got lost in the source code and decided to just play mathematical games with themselves instead....
It is the responsibility of companies to produce products both that the community wants and needs and products that help to shape a moral fabric of society.... Unfortunately (he says, sipping beer at 13:30) the companies produce products that are bad for the community which they know will be abused....
It is the responsibility of the community to purchase products and services from organisations who represent AND UPHOLD the ideals of society.... Unfortunately this is the weakest link.... The only thing holding the community to account is their morality.... Something very hard to achieve a high standard in as either the average is taken or society is seperated into the haves/have nots and there are always more have nots.... In addition, morality does not pay the bills or feed the starving so rarely at the corporations held to account....
It is the responsibility of the media to debate and shape the ideals of society with rigor.... Unfortunately they monopolise on the short attention span of the community with a 'sex sells' attitude.... Though we celebrate the greats of literature I expect less than 1% could name but a handful and less still would understand why they were great....
Unfortunately such a situation as we have now only highlights the weaknesses of the human race.... Which is also kinda the point of a recession.... Acceptance of our own failures.... Using more energy than we are able to produce long-term.... Employing the wrong people in power.... General lack of responsibility at all levels :lol....
Right now I have that off my chest I'm going to crack open another beer.... They are currently on offer :wink....
It seems pretty much the case that Wall Street and the corporate sector generally have Government by the balls and this is the case among most western countries where the greedy few will keep ripping the guts out of every economy they can for as long as they can.
The problem (for them) is that when enough people are unhappy, hungry and unemployed it starts to get risky so they twist Government's balls a bit harder to suppress all of these people with fear, bullshit, distractions and the like so they can keep PHUKING over the economy.
The real risk is that as thing keep getting worse, Governments will have more and more problems containing a vast number of unhappy people and may lose control as so many people start responding to being ripped off. With memories of the French revolution, perhaps this is the way forward.
Reminds me of my youth and the national uprising against the Vietnam War. There were many who said we were un-American and simply bums when the fact was our rebellion made a difference and helped to end that hideous war. If you've followed any of this OWS stuff it's made up of mostly young people, college students, folks who have lost their homes and folks who can't find work. What comes of it I don't know? Winters coming and its difficult to live out doors in freezing temperatures. I hope this rebellion continues but I fear the cold of winter will end it all. America needs a revolution against that 1% I call the greedy-in-power. After all we out number them immensely.
I think this message apply to the general sentiment of the 99%.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT6HNsmdGPQ&feature=related
Altough I do not buy the BS that non violence will resolve things. As it didn't work for the Jews on WW2 to be passive. At the end only a combination of violent and non violent is what bring change. Even the civil right movement of Luther King would have not work if it not for the Deacons:
http://www.amazon.com/Deacons-Defense-Resistance-Movement-ebook/dp/B003E7EU0M/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2N9NXVVD27FNS&colid=8T8CO5AM6TP5
Any way, its main point is people should start acting and doing things because its right and not because is convenient or because of fear. Until that happen, there will be no change. And for that too happen, people need to start thinking for themselves and not for what X or Y "leader" tells them to think. As only a person capable of thinking for himself/herself is capable of knowing right from wrong.
Quote from: dedndave on October 07, 2011, 07:37:57 PM
QuoteI always felt that the voting system need a "None of the above" place to check. And if the majority
vote none of the above, new elections need to be made with none of the candidates presented.
i like this one - and it has some possiblity of being seen as constitutional
the other ideas would not even be considered
I like this idea!!!!
Quoteonly a person capable of thinking for himself/herself is capable of
seeing things for what they are and fixing them, or throwing them out as junk.
Religion is totally corrupt, as are most Governments. I note that NO-ONE - NOT ONE - person involved in the church child sex abuse scandal has been prosecuted for their crimes. WTF!!!!!!!!! People don't care, and Governments are complicit in failing to do a damn thing about it.
In the last week or two the Minister for Defence had to resign as he was running a parallel foreign policy to government and was dragging a lobbyist around at tax payers expense, among many other very serious things.
There has never been a better case for chucking out this current rotten system and starting over. We need a damn revolution, but it won't happen as people eat the BS they are fed in the media. People have been dumbed down by the education system in order that they can not think for themselves, all the time thinking things are improving!!! You only need to see the standard of written English these days to see the opposite is true.
Europe is currently eating this country alive. It is a modern day dictatorship, but people are yet to wake up and realize what it is doing.
Quote from: Astro on October 24, 2011, 02:55:08 AM
Quote from: dedndave on October 07, 2011, 07:37:57 PM
QuoteI always felt that the voting system need a "None of the above" place to check. And if the majority
vote none of the above, new elections need to be made with none of the candidates presented.
i like this one - and it has some possiblity of being seen as constitutional
the other ideas would not even be considered
I like this idea!!!!
Would anyone ever be elected?
Quote from: oex on October 24, 2011, 09:17:26 AM
Quote from: Astro on October 24, 2011, 02:55:08 AM
Quote from: dedndave on October 07, 2011, 07:37:57 PM
QuoteI always felt that the voting system need a "None of the above" place to check. And if the majority
vote none of the above, new elections need to be made with none of the candidates presented.
i like this one - and it has some possiblity of being seen as constitutional
the other ideas would not even be considered
I like this idea!!!!
Would anyone ever be elected?
I would say yes, but ff not, then is a sign that the country is too polarized to be a country.
A big part of the problem is the mere 10% of the population who actually vote.
We need honest independents running for office who are financed only by individual contributors and who have open books.
Not gonna happen, but it would be nice. :bg