This conflict is been too long, and never been solved. It is a bit strange where most of Israelite said that the land was owned by God, but on the other side they are not following Gods order like treat anyone equaly like what was writen on the Torah.
I got a jews name, and it cause me trouble everywhere here, I even have to reverse my name if Im going to make friends on here, thats why people know me as farabi. The conflict is complicated but I think it needed to be solved ASAP. Muslims want Jews to getout from Israel, this is cannot be acceptable since the jews own the land legally, the bought it from the arabs, not given by the England. At first, it was a wasteland, but the Jews turn it into a forest. But I can understand too the feeling of the muslim on how big the casualty from the palestine, I dont know what I should answer to them.
Its funny, Im not even a jews, and now I involved on this conflict. I gain no benefit taking side whatever side I took.
Fighting in the middle east has been ongoing since the dawn of time.
Sumerians and Akkadians
Babylonian and Akkadians
Egyptians and Babylonians
Egyptians and Everybody else
Persians and Everybody else
Persians and Greeks
Romans and whoever
And now of course Palenstinians/Israeli
It is ethnic cleansing in the guise of a religious crusade.
10,000 years of bloody warfare. It aint going to end soon. Not unless we kill God first, then maybe we have a chance.
What is bothersome is the Palenstinian call for state recognition from the UN after the UN had recognized Israel and took the land from the Palenstinians. If the UN recognizes Palenstine now it could set a bad precedent.
let's not forget the roman catholics, England and the crusades
I have a special skill that manages to irritate both sides of a debate and I point it at both Israelis and Palestinians. There is no doubt that both can live together and there are examples within Israel where it works but as long as both sides have a fanatical leadership that chooses to exclude the other on racial and religious grounds there will never be peace in Israel and Palestine.
The solution is to use Indian or Chinese or Eskimos or whatever unaligned group as an occupation force that is armed to the teeth that will kick the ass of both sides to get rid of the fanatical loonies that obstruct the peace process. people are people and if you remove the major irritations between them and allow each group to manage their own religious observances then there would be little to fight about but I would not hold my breath waiting for common sense to prevail in the area.
they'd be more likely to come to an arrangement without so much interference from outsiders
well - Isreal has much more power, so they need some sort of international moderation
i guess what i am trying to say is that the Arab states do not want peace
it seems that they will do what they can to keep the conflict alive
Take their toys away and only give them back when they are nice to each other....
:bg
> Take their toys away and only give them back when they are nice to each other....
Yes, apply the arms embargo on Palestinians to both sides and let them fight with stick and clubs, peacful negotiations would follow shortly after. :P
10,000 years of bull shit is pretty deep ....
I like hutch--'s idea. We should air drop the Swiss Guard into Jerusalem and let them take care of security. They got the practice.
Quote from: DarkWolf on September 10, 2011, 12:41:21 AM
10,000 years of bull shit is pretty deep ....
I like hutch--'s idea. We should air drop the Swiss Guard into Jerusalem and let them take care of security. They got the practice.
Yes, specially when the swiss are descendants of the Kight Templar's.
Friday, October 13, 1307. The day the templars where betrayed by the Pope and by the King of france (both death less than one year after the event, but thats another story).
After that, the swiss got a sudden burst of military training. Thus some people say that Templars leaving france, where the reason of it.
If this is true, is ironical that the decendants of templars got to do the same work. Protecting the Church.
That is interesting stuff actually, it would probably be more than coincidence that the Swiss banking system developed along the lines of the Temple Knights system. Knowing just a little about European and Catholic history, I would not be surprised if some dirty deal was done long ago between the Templars and the Vatican that had the first protecting the second.
I cant refuse the fact that Israel is truly the light for human race. I read the history about science development progress, if it is not the jews, who else did. But still, it doesnot mean they can kill anyone they want. I dont know, but I dont think israeli is exactly wrong, since it seems the war is initiated by the arabs. But Im too scared to tell the people here about that.
it's very hard to say "who started it"
this fight has been going on for 2000 years - even longer, really
it seems to me that all sides have made bad choices along the way
Quote from: Farabi on September 24, 2011, 12:19:12 PM
I cant refuse the fact that Israel is truly the light for human race.
What a light - a state based on blood, slaying and expulsion
I think the Palestinians should be given their own state. They really have not gotten anywhere trying to negotiate with Israel for years and years. Give them their own country.
i agree, Greg - they should have their own country
the problem is that everyone wants to claim Jerusalem
the Arabs and Palestinians want it and, of course, the Israelis want it
oddly enough, they all want it for the same reason :bg
attempts at shared occupation have always resulted in someone "closing the doors" to someone else
they aren't able to access what they consider the holy parts
then, someone gets an uzi or a bomb shoved up their backside
it goes on and on like that
if the situation were an energy source, it would be the proverbial perpetual motion machine
A good old fashioned pillow fight should be sufficient to solve the problem. :-)
I am still of the view that disarming both sides is the way to go then they can settle their grievances by throwing stones at each other. No matter what the history, a desert at the eastern end of the Mediterranean is just not important enough to keep destabilising the rest of the world. If you cannot find a completely unaligned nation as peacekeepers then apply the same embargo on both sides, arms, money, food etc .... See how long they both want to keep arguing. The sheer fatigue of throwing enough stones would do the job, Israelis would end up eating felafel sandwiches and Palestinians would end up eating Kosher meat pies. :bg
Andy's idea sounds like more fun to watch - lol
Honestly, Im afraid to USA. Iraq war happened when I was on Hi-School, something that I never expected. And then iraq attacked. At first I dont care about that. When I was on Hi-School I dont believe God, so I dont care about it. But then everybody arround me talking about that. As a muslim, at least on my ID card, I was convinced to be a soldier after I regain my faith, but then I lost my faith again. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol all the time.
Like I said, I dont care about the war outside my country, I watched it like wathing a movie. When the troops destroyed a mosque, I dont care. But then, I realized, I could be draged into wars. So I decided to studying all of the book that caused all of this, the quran and the bible. Now, I used it against both side to avoiding war. Muslims called me "American Dog", "Jews slave", "Liberalism follower" etc. I dont care. And I'll keep doing it.
Onan - i think if i were in your shoes.....
1) i'd pretend to be muslim until i could get my ass out of there - otherwise, you may not make it out alive
2) i'd get my ass out of there as soon as possible - you have a degree and programming background - shouldn't be too hard
Onan,
I would be careful about being involved in too much of this debate as it may put you at great risk. It is a complex issue that is based on the history of the Palestine area and it has as much to do with money, ww2 atrocities against the Jews and political influence of western countries in the middle east. The source of the problem is that all 3 Abrahamic religions have claim on Jerualem to the exclusion of each other but the area has an unhappy history in the latter half of the 20th century and great injustices have been done by both sides against the populations of respectively Palestine and Israel.
You are on reasonably safe ground by supporting a free independent Palestine, they are decent honourable people who deserve an independent country of their own and you have no reason to take sides between Palestinians and Israelis when the proferred end result is a peaceful and honourable settlement between them. The leadership of both Israel and Palestine have both been the problem that has produced the situation that exists today but both people can live together in peace apart from their leadership.
This allows you to say that you support the Palestinian people and that they should have a country of their own without having to take sides on political or religious grounds and that should silence the people who criticise you for what you think. We don't want to lose you over something that does not effect people who live in Indonesia.
If a person was being abused as a child, does it justifies the person to abuse children?
No.
Nor the Jews being victimized on WW2 by Germans justify Israel Victimizing Palestinians.
When in 1898 the USA invaded Puerto Rico, many people lost their land and (because of the imposed mono-cultive) many people learn what hunger of misery was like, including some of my ancestors. Will that justify me to get and AK-47 and start killing Americans (even tough I am an American citizen by a law imposed to get cannon fodder from Puerto Rico)?
No.
Whatever happen to my ancestors do not justify me killing people that have nothing to do with it (even if their ancestors did mess up with my ancestors).
now if you can explain that to the arabs and isrealis
Quote from: dedndave on October 04, 2011, 07:59:03 PM
now if you can explain that to the arabs and isrealis
Is more about their leaders than their population. The tribe mentality of US vs THEM.
BTW: The Israel/Palestinians situation is easy to change. Make the USA stop giving money and weapons to Israel. That way, they will need to economize resources and weapons. And besides, they still have not answered for the sinking of the USS Liberty. Instead of bombing them for that, the USA decided to give them more armament and money.