US economy: The Tea Party is a real threat to America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/31/observer-editorial-us-economy
Strange how it takes a media unrestrained by US politics to see the problem as it is, the US being brought to its knees by a bunch of financial illiterates trying to regain "Paradise Lost" according to Michelle Bachmann and Co. Nero fiddled while Rome burned but the loonies in the Tea party fiddle while the US is heading for oblivion. Lets hope there are enough of the traditional Republicans who see that the survival of the US is more important than the fantasies of the Tea Party.
Steve, I have never seen a fringe movement take control of a party's soul and mind like this before in my lifetime. Their rulers are the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly. They despise the black man who would dare to be president. They have promoted ugly forms of nativism including punitive immigration laws, english only legislation and bans on the teaching of ethnic studies. It is the 1840s all over again but this time the targets are Muslims and Hispanics rather than Germans and Irish.
It's a religionist movement with the view that the Constitution was divinely inspired, that the US is their gods gift to mankind, that capitalism is mandated by holy scripture and that the notion of social justice is the work of the antichrist. It has spawned a form of christian imperialism that justifies the crusades in Iraq and Afghanistan.
They are committed to authoritarianism which is imposing humiliating burdens on womens constitutional rights. They demand reductions in taxes on big corparate business and insisting on cutting the funding of education and health care. The regulation of entire industries is being eliminated in some states and laws banning some dillusionary threat of sharia are pending in a dozen more.
The christian-right and their tea party fellowers in legislatures and on school boards are insisting that high school history books be rewritten to eliminate references to the deism endorsed by our founding fathers in favor of promoting the notion of America as exclusively a christian nation. The history of slavery and Civil War are being twisted to satisfy the desires of apologists for the confederacy and southern values. History and science cannot be rewritten but these confused people find it easy to deny.
Some years ago in a speech I listened to Robert Reich warn of the vitriol we see today coming from the Tea Party movement as well as towards its likely targets. "Make no mistake angry right-wing populism lurks just below the surface of the terrible American economy, ready to be launched not only at Obama but also at liberals, intellectuals, gays, blacks, Jews, the mainstream media, coastal elites, crypto socialists, and any other potential target of paranoid opportunity."
Something dreadful will come from this movement I can sense it. I would not be surprise to see an event such as that in Norway happening here. I hope not!
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/armed.jpg)
Mainly the Tea Parties problem stem from their complete lack of understanding about how Government works,and any understanding about economics. Before you attempt to dismantle ANY system,you MUST have an alternative solution that WORKS!
Without some plan,it is just wishful thinking...But wishful thinking is what Tim McVay used in planing the Oklahoma bombings..it can be very destructive even if it has no truth in it.
Mcvay thought blowing up a federal building would somehow change everything....Only thing that it did was kill a lot of innocent people.
I went to a local gathering of tea baggers here in the small town where I live it was late spring. I was curious about these folks and wanted to know a bit more about what makes them tick. Some of the posters many carried were down right offensive. What surprised me the most was that many at least in my area of the country appeared to be of retirement age. One can tell since I'm near that age myself.
That got me to thinking, why do they want the US government destroyed when they themselves must certainly be drawing monthly social security checks and receiving medicare? Also, of the I'm guessing 200 or so people that where there, I did not see one single African American or Asian American or Muslim American even though this small town and surrounding communities have a good many folks of those races. The tea bagger gathering was pure white.
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/racist_tea_party.jpg)
Doesn't sound good Bill, perhaps the default is what they need to find out what an empty stomach is but from what I have seen they will just come out shooting instead. I get the swing of it being a reactionary movement and in part I know where it comes from, the feeling of being powerless and being pushed aside for minorities like Afro Americans, Hispanics and the rest but the problem is with any movement based on ignorance is that they have been fed bullsh*t for many years and prefer to believe it rather than bite the bullet and see what the economic problems in the US actually are.
We used to see something similar here with the British, the arse had fallen out of the Empire in the gap between ww1 and ww2 yet we used to hear assisted migrants from the UK waxing lyrical about the superiority of the British Empire and this was after ww2. The Tea Party are similar with their views of the US, they still think the world is like it was in 1960 and in doing so drag the US down to its knees.
It used to be, someone of moderate intelligence could tweak a car engine, these days it takes a bit more tech knowledge than the average person has access to. The economy used to be pretty simple,but many wars and artificial constructs later, and the economy is like a VERY complex time piece..all parts dependent on all the others. Tweak one without knowledge, and you just might wreak it beyound repair.
the problem with the tea party, as i see it is this...
it means a different thing to everyone who considers themselves a part of it - lol
it has no central leadership, really - at least nothing official
there is no clear doctrine of principals or direction
so - every town that has a group of tea "baggers" (as Bill likes to call them) has a completely different faction
they started off with some good ideas - nothing more than statements, really
for example - cut govt spending - i think we can all agree on that
pay down the national debt - another good idea - yah, we should do that
after you get past the basics, it all goes to shit - lol
they are all going in different directions
the term "tea party" has no clear definition
it will be different in every town, and for each individual
at the end of the day, it is meaningless
i don't understand what all the commotion is about
ignore them - maybe they'll go away :bg
it's "mind over matter"
i don't mind because they don't matter - lol
as for actually fixing the problems....
our government has snowballed out of control
it is now, by it's very nature, a self-destructive mechanism
it isn't going to fix itself
we are pretty much powerless to fix it
it's only a matter of time before it colapses in on itself
Quote from: dedndave on July 31, 2011, 08:31:14 PM
it's "mind over matter"
i don't mind because they don't matter - lol
Hi,
Oh boy. Let us hope so. Given the damage they want to
provoke.
Regards,
Steve N.
as i said before, the damage was already done
i doubt that any substantial changes they want to make will come to pass
the real damage they are doing is by distracting us from actually moving in the right direction
they are wasting time and resources
Tea- baggers! I'm really surprised so little is known by the average American of this fanatical movement. Sadly that's the trouble with Americans, they just don't give a damn even though it's so detrimental to the survival of this country if this movement continues to grow. With the Koch's brothers money and that of other big corp monies it could grow and destroy this nation completely. Americans best open their eyes and see, these fanatics who are bigots, homophobes and down right ignorant are trying to bring this country to its knees and with people who don't seem to give a damn, they and the tea baggers, just might succeed.
In 2010 tea bagger endorsed candidates upset established Republicans in various primaries such as Alaska, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Nevada, New York, South Carolina and Utah. This gave new momentum to the conservative cause in the 2010 elections. In the 2010 midterm elections The New York Times identified 138 candidates for Congress with significant tea bagger support who were running as Republicans (demons in disguise?).
The billionaire brothers David Koch, Charles Koch and Koch Industries are providing financial and organizational support to the tea bagger movement through Americans for Prosperity which David Kock founded. Former ambassador Christopher Meyer writes in the Daily Mail that the tea bagger movement is a mix of grassroots populism, professional conservative politics, and big money, the last supplied in part by Charles and David Koch. Jane Mayer says that the Koch brothers political involvement with the tea baggers has been so secretive that she labels it "covert". Its big monies feeding the ignorant!
Now it appears to me too many Americans have blinders on and don't take this movement seriously, but I do, I've seen and witnessed it! There are just too many of these bigoted ignorant fanatics around this country to be ignored.
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/tea-party.jpg)
Tea baggers, Hoobits and Maldor!(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/crackmeup.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt5OE3_3zvM
Funny enough Bill, the Tea Party folks for however well meaning they have much more in common with Islamic Jihadists than conservative Americans of a Republican origin. Religious fanaticism, ignorance and a failure to grasp the consequences of their actions coupled with a child like simplistic view of the world which is both flat and 4000 years old.
I have no beef with people who hold religious belief but I do object to those who confuse religion and politics as it has a terrible history over time. As the Islamic Jihadists are a pain in the arse for the Islamic world, Tea Party loonies are a pain in the arse that almost brought the US to its knees.
Bill,
news flash!!!!
the country is already in trouble
Steve, Though the president gave a speech last night that DC has come to a dept cutting agreement this mess isn't over yet, we have politicians such as warmonger Joseph Lieberman (I) of Connecticut concerned that the debt agreement will "disproportionately cut defense spending", Sen. Bernard Sanders (I) of Vermont calls plans that "balance the budget on the backs of struggling Americans" without raising taxes on the wealthiest "grotesquely immoral". Minority leader Nancy Pelosi (D) of California is facing defections from the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Progressive Caucus. The tea backed congressmen are not happy with any of it. The tea baggers house freshmen are trying to burn down the house they were elected to serve in. Obama is an inept negotiator and I'm very disappointed in him as a Democrat. On the over hand the thoughts of another Republican president scares me to death!
What these debt cutting tea bagger Republicans insist on will mean is wide ranging cuts in federal aid to states affecting everything from the Head Start school readiness program, Meals on Wheels (for starving Seniors and children), worker training initiatives, funding for transit agencies and education grants that serve disabled children. It's always the poor who suffer the must from these inept politicians we have in DC. The old saying in the US "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is very factual. Shame where this country is headed and the tea baggers are out to finish it with a bullet to the head.
Even scarier Bill, I searched for third party (political) and was supprised at just how MANY fringe political partys there are.
Tea baggers are just one that got notice.
WIKI of a list of parties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States
Some of these have been around a while,and some are very new..
This one is a FUN party....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marijuana_Party
That's interesting anunitu, some I knew of, many I didn't. Some are good, most are bad.
I think that if we were all members of the USMJ-Party we'd all be a much happier bunch! :bg
as far as i know, there are no elected officials in the "tea party"
i don't think it is officially a political party at all
as i understand it, it is the "tea party movement"
the elected officials that subscribe to it were elected to office as republicans, for the most part
they seem to be backing certain candidates, but i do not think you will find "tea party" on the ballot
although - that could change, i suppose :P
November isn't too far off
it will be interesting to see if they have legs
i really doubt it
Every time we have a third party in the elections, one or the other parties (Dems Repubs) end up having a part of their base voters siphoned off and even though the third party has no chance of winning, they effect the outcome.
i can only see that as a good thing
because they are likely to take votes away from republicans moreso than democrats
that is - if the tea party is a party at all
not that i am a big fan of democrats, either - lol
(i don't like many politicians, as a rule)
but i am less a fan of republicans at this point
they are set to shoot themselves in the foot, i think :bg
Agree Dave,I myself concider myself independent( I once ,when registering, put that down,and was told it was a party) So I am officially nonpartisan now.
I think that it's pretty damn obvious that the Tea Party operatives exist only to incite the disenfranchised: the citizens that are always angry because they don't have a clear concept of the incredibly complex nature of the United States government. If you are a simple-minded fool,...you only recognize simple-minded paradigms,...
Somewhere,...in some Tea Party safe-house there is a strategist. This person is evil. This person understands the true meaning of political power. This person has a very accurate idea of just how disenchanted the American public is,...and, because, this person is a highly paid consultant, he will dictate the tactics that the Tea Party candidates will perform for the television media. It is well known how large of a percentage of the population was financially disabled during the last few years,...and, to the Tea Party candidates, this segment of the population is ready to be organized and directed by a charismatic pied piper. Should be fun to see how much damage they are actually able to inflict.
Clearly, they are just trying to confuse voters. They imply the importance of issues that are historically insignificant. They poll constantly, and, probably have a small army of unemployed physicists to analyze the available data on political factions and cohesive voting blocks. They can project what we're thinking before we even think it. I would guess that their strategy is nothing more than controlling as many votes as possible, without making any real concessions in terms of power or wealth. They will probably capture a near majority of voters in the States, attempting to eviscerate the executive, Presidential branch.
Quote from: baltoro on August 01, 2011, 05:31:08 PM
...in some Tea Party safe-house there is a strategist. This person is evil. This person understands the true meaning of political power.
If you took the time to read my previous posts baltoro you'd know that evil is the Koch's brothers.
There are nearly 77 million Americans who were born between 1946 and 1964 (I was born May 1951) who have or soon will enter their retirement years. Most all of us vote in elections. I know for certain that most will not be happy about cuts in SS, Medicare and services such as Meals on Wheels for starving seniors and kids. If there is going to be a revolution coming we boomers are the ones who will start it. If a politician supports our needs they will get our vote. Remember, we are some 77 million strong and growing, goodbye tea bagger backed republican rats! :tdown
Quote77 million
absolutes are not as impressive as percentages in this case
roughly 51% of the voting population is age 45 and up :bg
That's true Dave and I believe I'm not misstaken that those 44 and below are less likely to vote. :thumbu
Quote from: BILLIf you took the time to read my previous posts baltoro you'd know that evil is the Koch's brothers.
Yeah, Bill,...I did read your posts. And, I've read about the Koch brothers. It's not just them. Most corporate executives and lawyers have a pretty good feel for the game. They know how it's played (hell, they made up most of the rules),...and they are master manipulators,...cynical and egotistical and bombastic..
I don't think there will be a revolution,...I think it will just fizzle out altogether. It's so easy to get everyone fighting amongst themselves,...and, it's like Mission Impossible to get some individual with the Right Stuff, to take control and save us from our own confused political impulses.
The debt ceiling has been raised over 90 times since 1960. It's NOT an issus.
And, neither are the issues that the Tea Party is proclaiming as critical. Get beyond the rhetoric,... :eek
What's REALLY important ???
still, those that are younger don't seem to be the problem, here
as you mentioned, the tea-party supporters seem to be older
on a related note....
notice how our govt works ?
they fart around and fart around with the debt ceiling package until the time has run out
the deal that's on the table today will likely pass because they don't have time left to do anything else
that's politics in motion (or not) :P
one thing that got tossed out that i was hoping to see pass was
that all those tax-cuts bush gave to the wealthy are going to stay in place
Quote from: baltoro on August 01, 2011, 06:24:05 PM
What's REALLY important ???
I don't really know anymore baltoro.
I was talking to a lady friend of mine today who is two years from full retirement if she wants it but she said she probably would not retire because she could not afford to. She lost a good bit of her 401K when the bottom feel out of the economy. She went on to say the many that are eligible to retire are not doing so for the same reasons but on the other hand the jobs the aging are holding on to, if they did retire, would go to someone much younger, there being so many younger folks needing a job. It's kind of a catch 22 sort of thing I guess. Shame, but that's what the US has become, you work until health wise you can no more.
i'll probably work until i die, anyway
i'd get bored, otherwise :bg
Imagine if you will,... :eek
...A world in which the standard of living that we enjoy here in the United States, doesn't exist,...
...A world in which clean water, nutritious food, adequate health care, and secure housing don't exist,...
...A world that is constantly at war. A world in which there is no hope,...a world of epidemics and zombies and horrors,...
This is what most of humanity endures on a daily basis. I, frankly, think we've got it pretty good here.
...And, if you think about it,...these populations of the 'failed states' and 'undeveloped countries',...will NEVER live like we do,... :eek
We've just got a serious excess of annoying idiots,...that think they are entitled to be in complete control of destiny,...
yah - we have been spoiled
gotten too soft, i suppose
enjoy it while you can
if it crashes, it's going to crash hard
could be that those with assault rifles and other "extreme" weapons take charge
until recently, i never thought it would happen in my lifetime, though
i now see that as a possiblity
One problem that is showing up is the economy(world) is built on a house of cards. Even people who have studied the economy their whole lives don't really understand how it works.
As in programming higher level languages,a lot of the LIBS used were written a long time back,and most programmers couldn't recreate them from scratch. I remember when if you needed a faster routine, you did it in assembler, and created a lib, so you didn't have to figure out the same thing twice.
The economy is kinda like Windows,there are so many different things,created by a vast number of programers,that very few people understand just how it all interacts. Thats the economy,many parts tacked togather to make it work,but no one actully understands how it interacts and functions.
We seem to have a resession about every 10 years, and no one seems to be able to explain why. The actions taken within those 10 years must have an effect over time that triggers a recession.
Resessions have been around for a LONG time,even back in the beginning years of the 1800's. At least for our country,it wouldn't supprise me if the same is true for all large economys.
The same thing is said about the universe, unfamous people tend to express the frustration of not being able to grasp the entire universe, what could possibly be out there, is it a question of quantity of information or is it a question of intelligence, logic intelligence depends on bits of information, understanding the economy takes alot of information. Either you are in posession of that information or you don't. Most people don't and never will.
I DON'T want anyone to understand the economy fully, those people who want to narrow the world down to a 'handfull' so that they can control it better, do they despise ignorance or lack of control.
Good point actually, anything with GLOBAL or WORLD is part of a push to control the world economy with all of the associated controls, population reduction, fascist police forces and nasty shitty military actions to massacre non-conformists.
World Trade Organisation.
World Health Organisation.
World Bank.
IMF.
Global Village.
Global Economy.
UN anything.
etc etc ....
When countries did not have rediculously inter-dependent economies, if one went down, others were safe. Nowdays if the price of some commodity drops in Botswanaland or some other shithole the stock market gets the flutters and unrelated countries and industries get bashed for it. Independent economies acted like an economic firewall that isolated one country from another.
Specific to the US there are 2 over-riding factors that need to be addressed, PHUK off the Federal Reserve and take control of the US currency AND remove the "personhood" that US citizens have from corporations. Honour the US constitution written by the US founding fathers and the US will rise again.
you can go too far the other direction, too
look at what isolationism did for Russia and China
must be a happy medium in there, someplace
things like NAFTA and other similar trade arrangements aren't helping matters here in the US
Dave,
> look at what isolationism did for Russia and China
As a matter of fact I have, Russia has almost no debt problems at all and China is the world's fastest growing large economy. The economic action is in the B.R.I.C block of countries, Brasil, India, Russia and China, large populations and massive resources.
I am personally of the view that true capitalism with open markets and competition is superior to controlled left wing economies but the bastardisation of capitalism we all suffer at the moment is nothing more than thinly disguised fascism, literally the state and corporate sectors in bed together.
their econmy - fine
what about the people ?
they are overworked for little pay
mistreated - no rights - no wonder the economy is strong
Dave,
The sad part is that the formula is being applied the same way in western countries, work our way of go hungry.
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/dumbbaggers.jpg)
Quote from: hutch-- on August 02, 2011, 09:09:45 AM
The sad part is that the formula is being applied the same way in western countries, work our way of go hungry.
Steve, right now, millions of Americans are struggling with hunger. These are often hard working adults, children and our seniors who simply cannot make ends meet and are forced to go without food for several meals, or even days. Seniors are a special case because they often find themselves having to choose between their meds or their stomachs. I know, its hard to believe this could happen in America but it does everyday.
Tea baggers, the simple minds of simpletons. :tdown
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/baggers.gif)
It makes me very sad to see such ignorance in my country. I don't concider myself highly educated,but sometimes there is what is called "Collage stupid". I have seen this when I was working,a manager tried to solve a problem using calculus,when it was simply a matter of using common sense. Those pics of the teabaggers show just how stupid and sheepish a lot of people are.
Most(as seen on Jay Leno's asking simple questions on the street) people don't even know or understand anything that isn't about some stars meltdown. Ask(real question) who is buried in Grants tomb..and they give a blank look.
its not multiple choice so it is HARD. We are supposed to be the best and the brightest..and we seem mostly to be a bunch of trailer park rejects.
Quote from: anunitu on August 02, 2011, 03:18:01 PM
It makes me very sad to see such ignorance in my country.
As it does I anunitu. I'm not claiming all tea baggers are, but you are correct, most are trailer park rejects.
Here is some interesting info. The four states with the most tea bagger representatives in Congress are all former members of the Confederate States of America. The states with the greatest number of members of the House tea bagger caucus are Texas (12), Florida (7), Louisiana (5) and Georgia (5). While California is in fifth place with four House tea bagger members, the sixth, seventh and eighth places on the list are taken by two former Southern slave states, South Carolina and Tennessee, and a border state, Missouri, each with three members of the congressional tea bagger caucus.
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/01.jpg) (http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/02.jpg)
i think i have made previous remarks about that part of the country
they are heavily republican, and most of them don't know why - lol
i envision a guy with a tally-ho gun rack, a CB rig, and a can of beer
something along the lines of Larry the Cable Guy :bg
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.bloggingstocks.com/media/2007/07/larry.jpg)
You can blame the Tea Party folks on Ronny Raygun, give 'em guns, give 'em morality, ban abortions and so on while ripping the heart out of their towns, sending work overseas, breaking unions and raping the economy. Poor bastards have been the victims of the perfect con, they betray themselves by sucking up to this pie in the sky bullsh*t where if the government just spends less on the poorest people in the country and destroys the middle class, then everything will end up alright.
It is unfortunate that the Republican party has been so badly trashed over the last 30 years, IKE was one of the all time best Republican presidents but they have had little since. Strangely enough the distinction being driven by the Republican Party and its loonie tune offshoots is the stuff that Marx was writing about in his manifesto, class struggle of haves and have nots where you have a massively rich elite controlling a poverty stricken serf class. That Marx's solution failed is history but his recognition of the problem has passed the test of time.
It is "Tea Party" because "Monkey's Tea Party"?
Surely this is not the level of US politics?
Quote from: oex on August 03, 2011, 12:09:59 AM
Surely this is not the level of US politics?
Yep, that is what it has become! A war against the haves and have nots. The Republicans who tend to side with the haves, the Democrats who tend to side with the have-nots.
Hi,
The logic of the Tea Party makes the same sort of sense
as the tea party in Lewis Carroll's book. Firm beliefs and
rote actions galore.
Worthless,
Steve N.
When the Republicans drop the idea of killing or privatizing SS and Medicare, when the Republicans stop trying to bring religion into politics, when the Republicans stop insisting high school history books be rewritten to eliminate references to the deism endorsed by our founding fathers in favor of promoting the notion of America as exclusively a christian nation, or their continuing attempt to change the history of slavery and the civil war, or their desire to shove their confederate southern values upon me, or their continuing favor of giving huge tax breaks to big corporations such as big oil, big pharma and the medical industry, I just might consider voting for one. Until one comes along, in my book, they are tea bagger backed bigoted skumbags.
By the way, on my lunch break I'm going to go outside and hug one of my 80 year old trees! :bg