I was tempted to ignore this article but if us foreigners don't stand up for the young American servicemen I wonder who will ? Lousy food, lousy support, dangerous jobs, lousy pay, expendable in the eyes of the arms industry and treated like sh*t if they end up wounded. I know there are Americans who actually care about the young servicemen but they tend to be drowned out by the jingoist bullsh*t of supporting the troops while sending them to some sh*thole to get killed for no other reason than to keep the arms industry in money.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-28/memorial-day-how-america-screws-its-soldiers/?cid=bs:archive5#
yah - our government sux rox at taking care of the guys
they even leave it up to the civilian population to boost their morale
that's what these articles are aimed at
when you're stuck in a shit-hole
and they tell you you get out in X months
then, at the end of X months, they extend your duty, it isn't easy to keep a positive attitude
what's in store for them when they do get home is - the gov't will find a way to piss in their cheerios again
Time to vote for somebody different.. There's not that much choice though!!
What I see on the news is, when a Vet goes for a job after defending our freedoms, Direct quote from the news "We don't hire CRAZY
War vets,but thank you for your service" Now that is an insult to every veteran that ever served this Country!!
I think, throughout history, it has been common for societies to shun war veterans.
"it has been common for societies to shun war veterans."
It is normal coz they are just killers for money without a soul, moral, etc.. :snooty:
Quote from: lingo on May 30, 2011, 11:05:08 PM
"it has been common for societies to shun war veterans."
It is normal coz they are just killers for money without a soul, moral, etc.. :snooty:
I disagree. When I was growing up virtually every man I knew was a war veteran, starting with my father and all of his brothers, and the fathers of every one of my friends. I knew all of these veterans more than well enough to know that they were not as you describe.
"I knew was a war veteran, starting with my father and all of his brothers,"
Very "convenient" arguments...
How many people they have killed?
And how many more they should kill to become murderers for you? :snooty:
In OZ we have had different responses over time, OZ made the mistake of getting involved in WW1 at massive cost, both economically and with loss of life. Those who came back were treated like sh*t and it was only the population that supported the many injured and maimed by gas warfare. The reaction was so bad that by WW2 our guys were treated a lot better and when they returned they were looked after for the rest of their life if they had war injuries.
It seems to be related to how popular a war is as to whether the guys get treated OK. WW2 was popular as our guys protected the country from invasion, Korea less so and Vietnam was highly unpopular here which was reflected in the lousy treatment that Nam vets got here. There was a corresponding effect in alcoholism, drug abuse, divorce and suicide among the vets that took a long to to correct and it was not lost on a large number of people who saw the effects.
The problem as I see it is servicemen take the brunt of criticism for what are basically political decisions when in fact the blame should be pointed at the politicians who started the war. There have been incidents where atrocities have been committed from all parties involved in wars and in some cases it has been unprofessional conduct by service personnel but the blame for the large picture rests with politicians who started the damned things in the first place.
Quote from: lingo on May 31, 2011, 12:05:04 AM
How many people they have killed?
For at least most of the veterans that I knew, none, unless you want to count killings where some action of theirs played a small indirect part. And if you do, then most of us have killed people, it's just a matter of finding the associations.
Warfare is not the art of people being "nice" to each other but defense is a right against people who choose to invade an others country so to this extent a war of defense is a just war. Historically any military will tend to pick up its share of psychopaths but in the context of needing to be involved in a war, often these loonies are very useful in dangerous circumstances. Wars of defense have often been fought by volunteers who join up to fight for their own freedom,its a different case to an invading army full of effectively mercenaries.
Just as an example the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour and the German Uboat attack on the US east coast were acts of aggression that were not defensive but offensive and the US was fully justified in entering the war to defend itself and its allies. Sad to say most of the later wars have not had that type of justification and have left the US open to criticism for being the invaders.
My point with the original posting was that in most instances the guys on the ground are not there having fun, they have been stuck in some sh*thole fighting a war for no other purpose than lining the pockets of the armament industry when often many of them signed up in the first place on a matter of principal to defend their country, not simply to be used as cannon fodder for profit.
"the guys on the ground are not there having fun, they have been stuc"
Really? What they do there and why they are there?
May be some of them are victims of propaganda but they are killers coz it is their paid job.
Many ancient craft, such as prostitution and religion... :snooty:
I'm sure 'war' will come uninvited, to your town one day... we'll see what you have to say afterwards :wink
The best way that we American's can honor our troops is to bring them all home. :thumbu
When America's masses want change their politicians are like pushing a pig thru the mud. But I see public opinion growing more and more against this bullsh!t as it goes on and on. My hope is it will force the end to these stupid wars sooner rather then later.
Most Americans are sick up to here about our soldiers dying and getting severely damaged both body and mind. For what?? I know for what! Americas permanent presence and influence in those areas of the world. That's what it's about.
To accomplish this our powers that be must glue our asses over there so we can in tern keep the military machine running and make certain we are always the most powerful force on this planet. Paid for by the taxpaying, back aching, hard working families of this country who are in many cases struggling to make ends meet. What folly our foolish politicians make.
QuoteReally? What they do there and why they are there?
May be some of them are victims of propaganda but they are killers coz it is their paid job.
pretty good line of reasoning, especially coming from a German
i wonder how may innocent people your father and grandfather have killed
I AM OFFICIALLY INVITING ALL CONCERNED MASM FORUM PARTICIPANTS OVER TO HUTCH'S HOUSE FOR A SUMPTUOUS DINNER,...AFTER WHICH WE SHALL ALL SETTLE INTO THE LIBRARY WHERE THE SERVANTS WILL BRING US OUR BRANDY,...AT WHICH TIME WE SHALL COMMENCE A DISCUSSION OF THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS LIKE RATIONAL AND INTELLIGENT GENTLEMEN,...AND, IN LESS THAN TEN MINUTES WE SHALL SOLVE EVERY DAMN ONE OF HUMANITIES' ENDLESS AND POINTLESS POLITICAL DEBACLES,...AND, THEN WE SHALL ANNOUNCE THE CONSENSUS POLICIES TO CNN AND THE WORLD'S LEADERS.
...AND, ALL WILL BE GOOD,...
How sumptuous will the dinner be?
I'm in.... :U
Quote from: dedndave on May 31, 2011, 02:33:21 PM
pretty good line of reasoning, especially coming from a German
i wonder how may innocent people your father and grandfather have killed
That was low...
but much the same situation 'exists' in the USA, minus the brownshirts.
Although there are minority crackpots there (like everywhere else).
:8)
The UK is not much better.
The UK Government just announced that it will make law a "Military Covenant" that means our troops get looked after. Only, upon closer examination of the bill, does it become apparent that it actually puts into law ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and that the troops WILL HAVE TO SUE THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT FOR EVERYTHING THEY SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO, THUS SUBJECTING IT TO LEGAL PRECEDENT AND CHALLENGE ON A PER-CASE BASIS. :eek
The money used in the litigation could have gone towards care. Instead it just makes the legal profession a bit richer. IT IS DISGUSTING!
@baltoro: let me know when it is - I'll book the flight! :bg