This war will not over if the source is not known. I guess the source of it is because of war on Palistine. If this conflict cannot be solved the war will keep on and on and on. It has been 10 years since I know about this conflict, And it is evolved into a bigger and bigger weapon. This is not good. Somebody, do something. Finish this war off.
The problem has been much much longer than 10 years.... It dates back hundreds of years to the crusades and thousands of years to the beginnings of religions.... People will always find an excuse to fight.... I dont think America has *not* been in a war of some description at least since the world wars.... The problem is simple.... If a country is not testing it's weapons and training it's soldiers in combat roles they are not ready to fight if the need arises, countries are not imposing their values on others and they have to look after their young men at home....
It just happens that muslim extremism has more excuses for war right now....
There you go... sums it up close to perfection. :wink
Farabi, i wouldn't get worried about what/whose religion is the bad 'warmonger'.. they're all the same in many respects.
What you should be doing, is concentrating on the 'good' that religion does, bad things/people come and go, but the 'good' endures a lot longer.
:thumbu
Man all of this man craps, the are fighting everywhere. Hell. I saw many report everywhere. Im not cops, Im just watching it. People working together to protect the minority, Im just hoping the provocation is over soon. Thank God it is not on my city, but how long?
I Hope there would not be war on here. I had a nice living. That would be bad if I need to go as a refugee. But I guess it is too far to be like that.
Farabi
religion is just a disguise for real motivations. The real ones are greed, oil and MONEY. It was always this way. Look the facts in depth and you will find this.
Kind regards and peace to your young heart.
It is not easy to be fair, but if justice not established it will make the war longer. for our enemy i still be their enemy and for my people i was a traitor. but, like i said, if the criminal is not be punished the conflict will go to far. i targetting the provocator to be taken down.
The best is to be neutral, but be very vocal towards those that demonise you.
I've had a lot of this in the turbulent times we've had here. I'm not supporting the previous regime, and being english origin/speaking, I became a target of sorts.
My reply to them was always..
"F..K you lot, I don't support you or your 'enemy', but f..k with me and I will be your enemy"
That shut them up very quickly..
:bg
On indonesia, the most agressive and violent religion is called ASWJ, the Ahlu sunnah wal jamaah, and most of the bomber was called themself sallafy, better watch out.
They are starting to fight with themself after they had no enemies, now the ASWJ targetting iran syiah as their enemies. That is the ASWJ when they had no enemies, they will fight each other, if this is happened, it mean their end is near. After syiah was eradicated, the ASWJ will attacking their friend on the same sect. I better quiet and not involved on their conflict, I will hide. The more I argue them, the more they will hate me, anyway they had a silly believe before, like sun circling earth, if it so, dont argue them, just let them fight each other.
I dont know how the development of the victorian era compares with some countries with wars right now.... But I wonder.... If the victorians had the firepower these countries have.... Whether things would be better or worse....
Quote from: Farabi on May 23, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
if it so, dont argue them, just let them fight each other.
There you go wise man.. let the fools do themselves in :U
I have recently watched a documentary on Muslim Spain and if history is worth understanding, religious extremism from both Christian and Muslim extremists brought Muslim Spain to its knees and then its final destruction. After the Moors established Andeluse as a centre of learning and tolerance, Berbers from North Africa invaded and "purified" the place of its decadent ways. A couple of hundred years of infighting and dirty deals with the emerging Christian kingdoms further weakened Andeluse until the northern Christian kingdoms started to merge into a superstate. When the Crusades ran out of puff in the middle east the excess of left over crusaders were channelled into Spain to fight the remaining Islamic kingdoms.
Under Ferdinand and Isabella the two major kingdoms were unified and with the spare crusaders, the rest of Muslim Spain was conquered. In the same year that Columbus set of to find the new world, 1492, Spain kicked out the remaining Muslims and Jews and would up the inquisition into an art form of atrocity and torture to re-enforce their political control over the Spanish population. This atrocity continued until Napoleon dismantled the inquisition many hundreds of years later.
The only other place I can think of that reached the heights of sensibilty and tolerance that Andeluse had was Norman controlled Sicily until they ran out of heirs.
There has never been a religious war except where it has been used as a tool to push the population into the conflict. When the Catholic church tried to intervene and impose its will on Henry VIII, the only thing that happened was that a lot of Catholic priests died at the hands of the king and many more civilians died when Protestantism threatened the rule of the European elite. When Islam threatens Christian kings there is a crusade, when Western culture threatens to undermine Eastern rulers stranglehold on their subjects there are suicide bombers. Religion is nothing more than a tool used to control the masses and keep them in line, wars break out when that tool becomes ineffective or is undermined by another more attractive tool.
If it serves the purpose of the ruling class to have two religions at each others throats then that is what will happen. Jews who were once persecuted by Catholics are now accepted by the church, even after more than a thousand years of hatred, because that conflict is no longer necessary to maintain power so it has been sidelined. Do you think for a moment when they name a king and call him "defender of the faith" it has anything at all to do with god or religion ? He should more appropriately be named "defender of the means of enslavement", America is "one nation under god" which is nothing more than "one nation blinded by the fallacy of god". Religion is an excuse and a rallying point, control and power are the driving forces behind war.
Rulers know the power of religion to keep us in line and play to it very well, duping the population into believing that some Leprechaun or whatever stupid incarnation of supreme being they dreamed up this month has decided that we alone are right and must impose the current supreme beings will on the rest of the world, when in reality it is nothing more than yet another king who is trying to expand his dominion. As sophisticated as we would like to think we are in this modern age we are only slightly more advanced than a bunch of Neanderthals bowing to someone who's holding a stick that's on fire. If religion wasn't so pathologically vile and destructive I would have thought it was a joke that went wrong. When we banish god and religion to the pile of rubbish that is mythology we will have finally shed at least one of the chains that masters have used to hold us down for countless millennia.
:bg
> When we banish god and religion to the pile of rubbish that is mythology we will have finally shed at least one of the chains that masters have used to hold us down for countless millennia.
The great humour here is that when you finally banish religion you will end up with what was driving it minus the interface that religion currently has. Power is corruption and the more power, the greater the corruption.
Zhees, it really get more and more confusion about which is right or wrong. Have a look at this
Quote from: free_man;323218Ini kalimat-kalimat dalam bahasa inggrisnya, untuk yang bahasa Indonesia ada setelah paragraf bahasa inggris (Selamat Membaca):
"" And I tried hard to be proud of my service, but all I can feel was shame. Racism can no longer master reality of the occupation, these are people, these are human beings. I since been claimed by guilt, anytime I see an elderly man, like the one who couldn't walk, to be rolled down on a stretcher, told the Iraqi police to take him away. I feel guilt anytime I see a mother with their children, like the one who cried hysterically restrained that we are worst than Saddam, as we forced her from her home. I feel guilt anytime I see a young girl, like the one that grabbed by the arm and drag them to the street. We were told we were fighting terrorist. The real terrorist was me and the real terrorism is this occupation.
Racism within the military is long then an important tool to justify the destruction and occupation of another country. Islam been used to justify the killing, subjugation, and torture of another people. Racism is a vital weapon employed by this government. It’s more important weapon than a rifle, a tank, a bomber, or battle ship. It’s more destructive than an artillery shell, or a bunker buster, or a tomahawk missile. While those weapons are created and owned by this government, they are harmless if no people willing to use them. (di sini > kalimat terakhir kurang jelas suaranya)
Those who sent us to war, do not have to pull the trigger, or load a mortar round. You do not have to fight the war, if you really have to sell the war. We need the public who’s willing to send their soldiers into harms way. We need soldiers who are willing to kill and be killed without question. They can spend millions on a single bomb, but that bomb only becomes a weapon when the wrings in the military are willing to follow orders to use it. They can send every last soldier anywhere on earth. But there only be a war, if soldiers are willing to fight.
And the ruling class, the billionaires should profit from human suffering. Care only about expanding their wealth, controlling the world economy. Understand that their power lies only mere ability to convince us to have war, oppression, and exploitation is in our interest. The understand of their wealth is dependent on mere ability to convince the working class, to die, to control of the market of another country. And convincing us to kill and die, is based on their ability to make us think that we are somehow superior.
Soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen have nothing to gain from this occupation. Vast majority people living in the U.S. have nothing to gain from this occupation. In fact, not only do we have nothing to gain, but we suffered more because of it. Loose limbs; and their trauma; and give our lives. Our family have to watch flag draped coffin lowered into the earth. Millions in this country, without health care, jobs, or access to education, was watch discovering in swindler for 450 million dollars a day on this occupation. (tepuk tangan bersama yang pertama)
Poor and working people in this country are sent to kill poor and working people in another country to make the rich, richer. About racism, as long as we realized we have more in common with the Iraqi people than they do with the billionaires that sent us to war! (tepuk tangan bersama kedua)
I threw families onto the street in Iraq, only to come home and find families thrown out to the street in this country. This track, tragic and unnecessary foreclosure prices. We need to wake up and realize that our real enemies are not some distant land, do not weep at His name if we don’t know and cultures we don’t understand. The enemy is people we know very well and people we can identify. The enemy is a system that wages war only when it’s profitable. The enemy is a CEO to play us off our job that makes profitable. It’s the insurance company is denying us health care when it’s profitable. It’s the based to take away our homes when it’s profitable. Our enemies are not 5,000 miles away, they are right here at home, and be organized, and fight with our sisters and brothers.
We can stop this war! We can stop this government! And we can create a better world!
(tepuk tangan terakhir) ""
free_man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akm3nYN8aG8
But I can see that USA is fighting the dictator.
Why cant we live in peace? I dont want my country beeing involved.
Quote from: Farabi on May 28, 2011, 02:43:31 PM
But I can see that USA is fighting the dictator.
Are you sure that the USA isnt the dictator?
Quote from: oex on May 28, 2011, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Farabi on May 28, 2011, 02:43:31 PM
But I can see that USA is fighting the dictator.
Are you sure that the USA isnt the dictator?
Did they? Even they are, they still better than another options, indonesia, russian, china.
Thanks, now I got it that Americans is human beeing too, sometime they make mistake and sometime they are right. I am too fanatic I guess, and that is what oex want to say. I appologize if I was annoyed anyone. Yes it is, sometime USA govt can do anything when someone killed and sometime they solve a problem, they was just like anybody else too.
Please if I made a mistake tell me, but on a simple word, not using a proverb since it is confusing me traslating it.
Edited. I think I should say something about peace thing, not something offending anyone.
Onan,
The issue is a bit more complicated than it may look, there have always been big financial interests that will take advantage of a particular country and the US is no exception here. Because it is still the world's largest economy and has a very powerful military, it can be abused by the massively rich to their own advantage and at the expense of ordinary American taxpayers who end up funding such activities.
The invasion and occupation of Iraq was an abuse of the US military that lost thouands of lives of young Americans, ruined Iraq, did not get the oil concessions they were after and brought the US to its knees financially and those that profited from it shifted their companies to the middle east to avoid the fallout from their great rip-off.
Quote from: hutch-- on June 12, 2011, 04:17:59 AM
Onan,
and has a very powerful military
The b2 spirit bombers are scary things. They have 21, one crashed a few years ago. But 20 of these each carrying 16 x 2000 pound bombs, they can target 16 x 20 = 320 individual targets in just one run with these stealth bombers. They had plans to build 160 of them, if they had that many of them they could probably level an entire country in one day.
This is just for the b2 spirit bombers. I can't imagine what will happen if they launched 10-15 aircraft carriers with a thousand airplanes or so in addition to the b2 spirit bombers.
Hutch,
No I dont think the attack is completly wrong. Some muslims are deserve for it, I remember how bad their preaching is, they spread hatred everywhere, and they causing damage to other religious followed ini here. Some church was burned, but then some muslims realize if it was wrong and protecting the church.
You should know how silly the faith has become now, I guess they are feel inferior because muslims organization was called the liberal muslims was more smarter than the traditional one. So they invent a silly believe.
So here is the rule, anyone who harm another, is a bad guys, eyes for an eyes, tooth for a tooth. That is what happened here. Our cops catch anyone who harming another people. And that is what makes the police is targetting by the terrorist now.
So my point is, yes it is posible that the US attack is was wrong, but it was not completely wrong, because it is proven that iraq and afghanistan was supporting the terrorist. And if it is not attacked, it will spread the hatred everywhere. This is my opinion.
Onan,
I agree with much that you say, in any group there are those who cannot be trusted and this goes for any religious group including Muslims. By far the vast majority of Muslim people want to live in a sensible and safe world but like other religious groups they have their share of loonies as well. What I object to is labelling every Muslim with the actions of a dangerous minority, I know a reasonable number of Muslim people who live here in Australia and they want the same things as anyone else, a job, raise their families in peace and be respected like any other person.
Interestingly enough the variety of terrorist in Indonesia are far more dangerous than the bullsh*t one that were supposed to be in Iraq and Afghanistan, Jemaah Islamiyah are very dangerous and have an ideology of a Muslim super state that incorporates Indenesia, the Phillipines and Malaysia. Your government has done a good job in slowing down this terrorist organisation and I hope they succeed in neutralising them so they do not hurt any more people.
Here is a little tidbit I caught on the news. 6.6 Billion dollers is gone from pallets of money shipped to Iraq. It was $100 doller bills.
it can not be accounted for..Now for the bigger supprise,Iraq is sueing the US for the missing money, it was money WE sent to help rebuild the country. They say because it is missing,we OWE them 6.6 billion.
One member of eather the senet or house that went to Iraq said in a speech there that when Iraq got back on their feet,they should pay us back some of the expense of helping them rebuild. This person that said that,is now BANNED from entering Iraq by the Iraq government.
I say pull out, and let them fix everything themselves.