The more I read about Assembly, the more I stumble upon "C".
I have been exposed to COBOL,PL1,BASIC,CLIPPER syntax for quite a while
but "C" syntax is a little bit different [ I mean weird! ].
The concepts are almost familiar (functions, variables, instructions, loops, file
management, pointers, arrays and you know what), but all those parenteses, some
of them don't even exist on my keyboard: {} - I have to use ALT + 123/125 to
display curly braces, and semicolons, and so on.
Many good books about Assembly, or Windows API, or Algorithms use "C".
So though a little bit reluctant, I started "The C programming language" by K&R.
Well, after the first chapter it got on my nerves, so I turned to something more
tutorial-like [C for dummies - C for the absolute beginner - and some more].
Why "C"? I guess some of you know the answer, and the "C" as well. :lol
Probably because the OS from UNIX onward were written mostly in C, with a small amount of less portable assembler.
It is also very easy to interface C/ASM.
To be honest, the prerequisite is any high level language. Some of the Campus programmers couldn't program their assignments in any language, let alone assembler.
Quote from: clive on May 20, 2010, 09:00:30 PM
Probably because the OS from UNIX onward were written mostly in C, with a small amount of less portable assembler.
It is also very easy to interface C/ASM.
To be honest, the prerequisite is any high level language. Some of the Campus programmers couldn't program their assignments in any language, let alone assembler.
Well, maybe this is the reason a lot of good books on Windows API use C, and
many Assembly teachers/writers do as well.
I've been coding with HLL for the last 30 years, so this prerequisite should have been aquired. :P
Some time I find Assembly syntax and logic easier then C's one. But it probably depends on the
fact that I'm just moving into both languages.
if you are working on ASM, you really don't have to "try to learn C"
it will happen by osmosis - lol
you will always find yourself looking at some piece of C code and thinking "now, how do i do that in ASM"
just learn the "operators and expressions" - * means it's a pointer - and away you go :bg
frktons,
You might find that you really like C once you learn it.
nahhhhh - assembler forever !!!
:bg
Quote from: frktons on May 20, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
Why "C"? I guess some of you know the answer, and the "C" as well. :lol
Actually, any HLL should do the job, because
Quote
are advised to start with a compiler first to learn basic concepts like addressing, programming logic, control flow and similar.
But since beginners usually start with procedural language (and C is still the most widely used), so there you go.
C looks pretty normal to me, at least when compared to Lisp :bg
Quote from: dedndave on May 20, 2010, 10:52:56 PM
if you are working on ASM, you really don't have to "try to learn C"
it will happen by osmosis - lol
you will always find yourself looking at some piece of C code and thinking "now, how do i do that in ASM"
just learn the "operators and expressions" - * means it's a pointer - and away you go :bg
There are too many examples in C for Assembly and API programming, so I figured it out
"better to know some basic C at least". :P
I tried the osmosis, but it didn't work :lol
Probably C can be used like a tool along the way to learn Assembly. ::)
Quote from: Greg Lyon on May 20, 2010, 11:55:20 PM
frktons,
You might find that you really like C once you learn it.
Well I hope so, otherwise it'd be hard to use it. :P
Quote from: TmX on May 21, 2010, 12:29:20 AM
Quote from: frktons on May 20, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
Why "C"? I guess some of you know the answer, and the "C" as well. :lol
Actually, any HLL should do the job, because
Quote
are advised to start with a compiler first to learn basic concepts like addressing, programming logic, control flow and similar.
But since beginners usually start with procedural language (and C is still the most widely used), so there you go.
C looks pretty normal to me, at least when compared to Lisp :bg
Don't know. ::)
I am already used to
Quote
basic concepts like addressing, programming logic, control flow and similar
but I have never seen a book or tut on Assembly or Windows API using COBOL or PL1. :eek
using C is kinda like a lingua franca. i believe partly because it is fairly old and still powerful. helps OSes were written in it too. Almost everyone knows C. :) As far as Assembler making more sense, i agree, but it is also much more verbose. And i had the oposite entry into things. I was trying to find C tutorials on Win32 and found Iczelion's tutorials. Was able to understand most of it because it was all function calls anyways.
Frank,
Its all been said but with most OS code aver the last 20 years or so C architecture is how its done and to write code in those OS versions you need to be able to handle C format. MS-DOS up to about 6 was written in MASM and was not directly C format but all Windows versions from 3.0 onwards were written in C and later C++ so languages that are Windows capable need to be able to handle that format.
With MASM you are free from much of the notation clutter but you still must handle stuff like zero terminated strings, structures, unions and of course addressing stored in pointers but its a good tool for doing this stuff once you get the sniff of it.
Quote from: joemc on May 21, 2010, 02:47:10 AM
using C is kinda like a lingua franca. i believe partly because it is fairly old and still powerful. helps OSes were written in it too. Almost everyone knows C. :) As far as Assembler making more sense, i agree, but it is also much more verbose. And i had the oposite entry into things. I was trying to find C tutorials on Win32 and found Iczelion's tutorials. Was able to understand most of it because it was all function calls anyways.
Well I think that in a land of C-speaking people I'm going to learn some of it :P
Quote from: hutch-- on May 21, 2010, 03:19:34 AM
Frank,
Its all been said but with most OS code aver the last 20 years or so C architecture is how its done and to write code in those OS versions you need to be able to handle C format. MS-DOS up to about 6 was written in MASM and was not directly C format but all Windows versions from 3.0 onwards were written in C and later C++ so languages that are Windows capable need to be able to handle that format.
With MASM you are free from much of the notation clutter but you still must handle stuff like zero terminated strings, structures, unions and of course addressing stored in pointers but its a good tool for doing this stuff once you get the sniff of it.
:U Reading "C for dummies" and " a couple more just to have a taste of "C". :lol
I found the key to learning C is to treat C and C++ as two seperate, incompatible languages. So many authors (and even programmers) mix classes and STL with low-level pointers and C library functions, and it creates a nightmare of unreadable, unstable code. Either learn 'C', or learn C++; don't try to learn them both at the same time, and avoid any books (or teachers, or coworkers) that try to.
Also, the notation is completly programmer dependent; you can write beautiful, clear programs in C, or you can take all the syntax shortcuts and remove all the whitespace to create a dense block of unreadable code to try and impress newcomers with how el33t u r (internet forums are rampant with guys like that).
Personally, i really like C++ for "real" programming, as long as its used right. But for "fun" programming, MASM is still the best.
-r
I code in ASM and PHP.... PHP is like c in format but without the confusion of c/c++.... It is a scripting language (so you dont end up with exes).... Most on this forum will dispise PHP and frown on it as being 'too easy'.... it is :bg.... c is somewhere in the middle.... it has higher level syntax than ASM but I honestly find this a drag.... You have hundreds of different words that mean DWORD which is annoying if you want to cover a large array of programming topics.... In PHP you cant do a lot of stuff it is too high level but you can also do a lot of things very simply that you just cant in c/asm like multiple format image manipulation in a few lines
I agree with redskull, C and C++ should be treated as two separate languages.
Quote from: oexYou have hundreds of different words that mean DWORD which is annoying if you want to cover a large array of programming topics...
Actually that is a Windows API thing. There aren't that many data types in C.
My mistake sorry I started with c then microsoft muddied the waters :lol
Good to know.
I'm just reading some barebone "C" syntax, as I don't like the idea of going
straight into objects and all the C++ stuff. I just need an intermediate level language
to prepare the backbone of applications and then connect it with Assembly
routines doing the "hard job". Being not so young, I cannot spend the rest of my life
to do everithing I'd like to in Assembly, my free time is limited, and family, and friends,
and travels, and hobbies demand for their space-time-energy stuff. :P
"C" is a new language for me and different from all the previous ones I've used so far.
Assembly takes its time to be digested. 1+1=2. It's enough for the time being. :lol
I considered also the pros of using C++ instead of C.
A very good and professional IDE from Microsoft, debugger, help, editor
all included and free. :bg
If I use C I have to stick with some quite nice IDE like Pelle's C or others.
But I'd miss some extra (inline API documentation for example) features.
By the way. At the moment I think C is good enough, and it will take several months
at my slow pace to understand enough to start doing something useful. :eek
Frank
Quote from: frktons on May 23, 2010, 03:22:35 PM
I'm just reading some barebone "C" syntax, as I don't like the idea of going
straight into objects and all the C++ stuff.
You can always compile C codes using C++ compiler (not the other way around, though :bg )
Quote from: TmX on May 23, 2010, 03:26:43 PM
You can always compile C codes using C++ compiler (not the other around, though :bg )
Yes, of course if you like the console tools: CL.EXE and the like. :P
Quote from: frktonsI considered also the pros of using C++ instead of C.
A very good and professional IDE from Microsoft, debugger, help, editor
all included and free. BigGrin
You can use the Visual C++ IDE, debugger, help, editor etc. for C too.
I echo the comments on how C is written, my generation wrote K & R formatting and it sunk in. Compacted blocks of C are close enough to unreadable as are non-matched indent braces.
These days I am so rusty I have to look up the notation to write a switch block as I have used other languages so long the notation format of C with "break" placement is the odd one out.
Quote from: hutch-- on May 23, 2010, 04:41:26 PM
...the notation format of C with "break" placement is the odd one out.
Last year i had the privilege of attending a small Q&A with brian kernighan, and when someone asked the question 'Is there anything you wish you could go back and change about the C language', his only reply was "Case statments falling through". :lol
-r
As for the keyboard problem, "The Annotated C++ Reference Manual" by Ellis & Stroustrup has an example of what C looks like on a Danish system using the ISO 646 (7-bit ISO) character set. It's in the section on trigraph sequences.
-----
C is pretty much in line with COBOL, PL/I, and Basic, in that it is a "procedure-oriented" language.
Some of the PL/I (a 1960's vintage language) terminology landed in C.
Examples:
PL/I "structure" vs. Pascal and Cobol "record"
"extern" and "static" storage attributes
-----
C is also a "low level" language, like BLISS, and a host of other "system implementation" languages. The other "SILs" have dropped out of sight.
C has explicit pointers with pointer arithmetic. This allows writing loops in an assembly language style, where you can increment a pointer to step through an array, rather than recalculating the address each time through a loop.
C makes no distinctions between integers and bit vectors that fit in the "native" data sizes. This allows assembly language-like reinterpretation of data.
If the integer size is big enough, C can explicitly copy pointers to integers and back again. Thus you can play games such as adding "marker" bits to addresses or XOR addresses together. (without using "unions")
C, as opposed to C++, has no object system, so any significant hidden overhead will be in functions you don't control (such as the standard file access and string formatting functions).
-----
As with assembly language, you can implement infrastructure for things like object systems, but you will also need to discipline yourself to avoid violating assumptions made by your infrastructure.
Quote from: Greg Lyon on May 23, 2010, 04:15:06 PM
You can use the Visual C++ IDE, debugger, help, editor etc. for C too.
I was not aware of that, it should not be straight on, maybe it is needed some
tweaks or customization? Let me know how to do that, it could be useful. :U
Among the first things I've learned about C so far are the strange
behaviour of scanf() and getchar() of the standard ANSI library.
Things like "Remember to flush when you finish...". :lol
After more or less 40 years of C being around there are so many
nasty tricks you have to be aware of in order to accomplish even
the most basical processing, that sometimes I wander why it has
became the "standard for system programming". Are we all masochistic? :dazzled:
Surely the closeness to Assembly logic and the presence of HLL
control structures are good points in its favour.
It was created to simpify the life of Assembly Programmers, and it looks
like it won the game. :P
I learnt it all backwards starting with HTML then Perl then JS then PHP then VB then C then ASM due to my age, from this spread I'm of the opinion that what you want to achieve is writing it all yourself from scratch, none of these languages actually either do what you need or make any logical sense to purpose, consider the English language, even it fails to accomplish everything, it is still being added to and updated over time.... We no longer go down to Ye olde inn but down the pub :lol.... C is like a child writing shakespeare, it is a generic worldwide language and though based on logic has many characteristics that have dubious logic, to truely master programming one must have a good understanding of all languages and the math/logic behind them (that's when you see the Neo numbers and control all of space and time :lol) few even in this forum have seen the light, most of us simply meer glimpses....
Basically what I'm trying to say if I can master a little focus is that all languages serve the purpose of their creators, what you might do in c is useless to a large degree when writing programs for a graphics card or for a website it's like speaking Chinese to an Englishman 他不會明白 (he will not understand).... You can cobble something together 但譯者是胡扯 (But the translator is crap)
PS I thing google substituted rubbish for crap :lol
Quote from: oex on May 23, 2010, 09:29:45 PM
I'm of the opinion that what you want to achieve is writing it all yourself from scratch, none of these languages actually either do what you need or make any logical sense to purpose.
If [what a useful token in all languages] I had enough time - space - energy then
{
I'd redesign the structure of the universe;
}
Well I omitted the
#include <stdio.h> and
int main() and some minor things,
but it should run anyway :lol
To be honest, when I look at 100 programming languages and maybe more
I recall what I've always imagined as a CODER DREAM:
A very wide library of well optimized code doing small but smart processing stuff
and a language that can easily access those stuff without having to loose one's head,
with an elegant syntax much more similar to human language than anything around.
Time by time old optimized stuff inside the library is updated with newer and better
ones, expanding the capacities of the language itself.
The .NET platform is doing something like that but in the worst imaginable way. :eek
But, as you rightly pointed the attention to:
Quote
Basically what I'm trying to say if I can master a little focus is that all languages serve the purpose of their creators.
That's exactly the point. Languages are created for their own purposes [business, science, IT stuff, graphics...]
and from the point of view of the one or few people who undertake the task of doing it.
Considering the savage condition of the planet what else could be done?
So, not being in the CODER DREAM, I prefer to use a large part of what already
exists, trying to select what suits best my needs, and doing the remaining by myself. :lol
frktons,
To use the Visual Studio with C does not take any special tweaks or customizations. Just write C code and compile. I name my files .c instead of .cpp. There is an option under Project Properties -> C/C++ -> Advanced to "Compile as C Code" (/TC) that you can set too, although it's not required. Just don't use any C++ features.
Quote from: Greg Lyon on May 23, 2010, 10:36:10 PM
frktons,
To use the Visual Studio with C does not take any special tweaks or customizations. Just write C code and compile. I name my files .c instead of .cpp. There is an option under Project Properties -> C/C++ -> Advanced to "Compile as C Code" (/TC) that you can set too. Just don't use any C++ features.
I promise I'll never use any C++ feature at least for 1 year :lol
Thanks Greg :U
This is a bare C template I did some months ago. Sad to say the standard C runtime libraries are very poorly designed and bloated the file out to over 30k so I used the MASM32 MSVCRT library and it now builds at 4.5k which is competitive to a MASM executable.
Just the addition of the division (Sw/2-wid/2,) sucked in a maths library that blew its size out so the MSVCRT library is probably a must for minimum sized code in VC.
K & R notation filtered through the original Microsoft SDK layout style for API code. It builds but issues a warning on the change from FP to integer.
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
#include <windows.h>
LRESULT CALLBACK WndProc(HWND,UINT,WPARAM,LPARAM);
HANDLE hInstance;
HANDLE hWnd; // global main window handle
HICON hIcon; // local icon handle
HANDLE hMenu;
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
void main()
{
LPMSG pmsg; // pointer for MSG structure
WNDCLASSEX * pwc; // pointer to WNDCLASSEX structure
MSG msg; // local msg structure
WNDCLASSEX wc; // local structure for RegisterClassEx
int wid;
int hgt;
int Sw;
int Sh;
char szTitle[] = "Microsoft C Template";
char szWindowClass[] = "C_Template";
/* --------------------------------
get the application instance handle
-------------------------------- */
hInstance = GetModuleHandle(NULL);
/* ---------------------------------
Copy structure addresses to pointers
--------------------------------- */
pmsg = &msg;
pwc = &wc;
hIcon = LoadIcon(hInstance,(LPCTSTR)5);
wc.cbSize = sizeof(WNDCLASSEX);
wc.style = CS_BYTEALIGNWINDOW | CS_BYTEALIGNCLIENT;
wc.lpfnWndProc = (WNDPROC)WndProc;
wc.cbClsExtra = 0;
wc.cbWndExtra = 0;
wc.hInstance = hInstance;
wc.hIcon = hIcon;
wc.hCursor = LoadCursor(NULL, IDC_ARROW);
wc.hbrBackground = (HBRUSH)(COLOR_WINDOW+1);
wc.lpszMenuName = NULL;
wc.lpszClassName = szWindowClass;
wc.hIconSm = hIcon;
RegisterClassEx(pwc);
Sw = GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXSCREEN); // screen width
Sh = GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYSCREEN); // screen height
wid = Sw * .70;
hgt = Sh * .70;
/* -------------------------------
limit the aspect ratio to 1.4 to 1
------------------------------- */
if (wid > hgt * 1.4)
{
wid = hgt * 1.4;
}
hWnd = CreateWindowEx(WS_EX_LEFT,
szWindowClass,
szTitle,
WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW,
Sw/2-wid/2,
Sh/2-hgt/2,
wid,hgt,
NULL,NULL,hInstance,NULL);
hMenu = LoadMenu(hInstance,(LPCTSTR)10);
SetMenu(hWnd,hMenu);
ShowWindow(hWnd,SW_SHOW);
UpdateWindow(hWnd);
while (GetMessage(pmsg,NULL,0,0))
{
switch (msg.message)
{
case WM_KEYUP:
{
switch (msg.wParam)
{
case VK_F1:
{
MessageBox(hWnd,"You pressed the F1 key","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
}
case VK_F2:
{
MessageBox(hWnd,"You pressed the F2 key","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
}
}
}
}
TranslateMessage(pmsg);
DispatchMessage(pmsg);
}
}
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
LRESULT CALLBACK WndProc(HWND hWin,UINT uMsg,WPARAM wParam,LPARAM lParam)
{
switch (uMsg)
{
case WM_COMMAND:
{
switch (wParam)
{
case 1010:
MessageBox(hWnd,"Open File","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case 1020:
MessageBox(hWnd,"Save File","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case 1090:
SendMessage(hWnd,WM_SYSCOMMAND,SC_CLOSE,(LPARAM)NULL);
break;
case 5000:
MessageBox(hWnd,"C template with no STATIC C runtime library","About",MB_OK);
break;
}
break;
}
case WM_CLOSE:
MessageBox(hWnd,"WM_CLOSE Here","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case WM_DESTROY:
PostQuitMessage(0);
break;
}
return DefWindowProc(hWin,uMsg,wParam,lParam);
}
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
i would pick up one or two pieces of C++ at a time, not all of it is object oriented. For example sometimes i prefer to declare a variable where i use it instead of at the beginning of a block.
Quote from: hutch-- on May 24, 2010, 01:01:28 AM
This is a bare C template I did some months ago. Sad to say the standard C runtime libraries are very poorly designed and bloated the file out to over 30k so I used the MASM32 MSVCRT library and it now builds at 4.5k which is competitive to a MASM executable.
Just the addition of the division (Sw/2-wid/2,) sucked in a maths library that blew its size out so the MSVCRT library is probably a must for minimum sized code in VC.
K & R notation filtered through the original Microsoft SDK layout style for API code. It builds but issues a warning on the change from FP to integer.
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
#include <windows.h>
LRESULT CALLBACK WndProc(HWND,UINT,WPARAM,LPARAM);
HANDLE hInstance;
HANDLE hWnd; // global main window handle
HICON hIcon; // local icon handle
HANDLE hMenu;
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
void main()
{
LPMSG pmsg; // pointer for MSG structure
WNDCLASSEX * pwc; // pointer to WNDCLASSEX structure
MSG msg; // local msg structure
WNDCLASSEX wc; // local structure for RegisterClassEx
int wid;
int hgt;
int Sw;
int Sh;
char szTitle[] = "Microsoft C Template";
char szWindowClass[] = "C_Template";
/* --------------------------------
get the application instance handle
-------------------------------- */
hInstance = GetModuleHandle(NULL);
/* ---------------------------------
Copy structure addresses to pointers
--------------------------------- */
pmsg = &msg;
pwc = &wc;
hIcon = LoadIcon(hInstance,(LPCTSTR)5);
wc.cbSize = sizeof(WNDCLASSEX);
wc.style = CS_BYTEALIGNWINDOW | CS_BYTEALIGNCLIENT;
wc.lpfnWndProc = (WNDPROC)WndProc;
wc.cbClsExtra = 0;
wc.cbWndExtra = 0;
wc.hInstance = hInstance;
wc.hIcon = hIcon;
wc.hCursor = LoadCursor(NULL, IDC_ARROW);
wc.hbrBackground = (HBRUSH)(COLOR_WINDOW+1);
wc.lpszMenuName = NULL;
wc.lpszClassName = szWindowClass;
wc.hIconSm = hIcon;
RegisterClassEx(pwc);
Sw = GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXSCREEN); // screen width
Sh = GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYSCREEN); // screen height
wid = Sw * .70;
hgt = Sh * .70;
/* -------------------------------
limit the aspect ratio to 1.4 to 1
------------------------------- */
if (wid > hgt * 1.4)
{
wid = hgt * 1.4;
}
hWnd = CreateWindowEx(WS_EX_LEFT,
szWindowClass,
szTitle,
WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW,
Sw/2-wid/2,
Sh/2-hgt/2,
wid,hgt,
NULL,NULL,hInstance,NULL);
hMenu = LoadMenu(hInstance,(LPCTSTR)10);
SetMenu(hWnd,hMenu);
ShowWindow(hWnd,SW_SHOW);
UpdateWindow(hWnd);
while (GetMessage(pmsg,NULL,0,0))
{
switch (msg.message)
{
case WM_KEYUP:
{
switch (msg.wParam)
{
case VK_F1:
{
MessageBox(hWnd,"You pressed the F1 key","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
}
case VK_F2:
{
MessageBox(hWnd,"You pressed the F2 key","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
}
}
}
}
TranslateMessage(pmsg);
DispatchMessage(pmsg);
}
}
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
LRESULT CALLBACK WndProc(HWND hWin,UINT uMsg,WPARAM wParam,LPARAM lParam)
{
switch (uMsg)
{
case WM_COMMAND:
{
switch (wParam)
{
case 1010:
MessageBox(hWnd,"Open File","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case 1020:
MessageBox(hWnd,"Save File","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case 1090:
SendMessage(hWnd,WM_SYSCOMMAND,SC_CLOSE,(LPARAM)NULL);
break;
case 5000:
MessageBox(hWnd,"C template with no STATIC C runtime library","About",MB_OK);
break;
}
break;
}
case WM_CLOSE:
MessageBox(hWnd,"WM_CLOSE Here","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case WM_DESTROY:
PostQuitMessage(0);
break;
}
return DefWindowProc(hWin,uMsg,wParam,lParam);
}
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
So, in order to optimize size , and probably speed as well, you have
to access the Windows API skipping the ANSI C library altogether?
I mean "MASM32 MSVCRT library" refers to Windows API call customized
for MASM32 ?
Frank
windows.h has many sub-includes inside of it. An implementation of the c runtime library is normally included automatically unless you turn it off (which is tricky to find this option sometimes btw). Many things in C are compiler dependent.
Quote from: joemc on May 24, 2010, 01:42:58 AM
i would pick up one or two pieces of C++ at a time, not all of it is object oriented. For example sometimes i prefer to declare a variable where i use it instead of at the beginning of a block.
To each his own, but this is the exact thing I would try and discourage. A C++ program is, by definition, 100% object oriented. While things like declaring variables elsewhere within the code and even the increment operator are certainly convienient, they don't make for an OO C++ program. I've met many a "experienced object oriented C++ programmer" who didn't even know what STL or UML was, and that just makes things that much more confusing for the poor guys starting out. IMHO, if you use any of the C libraries, then you don't have a C++ program, plain and simple. But again, just my biased opinion, so go with whatever helps you learn.
-r
Quote from: redskull on May 24, 2010, 02:18:15 AM
A C++ program is, by definition, 100% object oriented.
Where is that definition listed? When i search i find:
C++ (pronounced "See plus plus") is a statically typed, free-form, multi-paradigm, compiled, general-purpose programming language. I am just kidding i have seen many with your view. But i disagree. I don't have to use the heated seats in my Cadillac for it to be a Cadillac. It is a feature. I view C++ as having the ability to program in more than one model. I do discourage mixing them all together. But i do use C++ features in a modular program regularly. To each their own.
Little side note, coming from C++ to MASM it is nice if you accidentally press ; at the end of a line it is just a comment :)
Frank,
Quote
So, in order to optimize size , and probably speed as well, you have
to access the Windows API skipping the ANSI C library altogether?
I mean "MASM32 MSVCRT library" refers to Windows API call customized
for MASM32 ?
Not exactly, it comes from knowing that with later C compilers from Microsoft that if you call the provided MSVCRT you get one of the later side by side DLLs instead where if I use the library from MASM32 I get the original MSVCRT which is installed on every computer since win95b with IE loaded.
The C compiler is fine but the runtime libraries are badly designed and have too many functions bundled together so if your code calls one function you get a heap of other stuff as well.
Quote from: redskull on May 24, 2010, 02:18:15 AM
... go with whatever helps you learn.
I think it is a good point. :lol
Quote from: joemc on May 24, 2010, 02:20:52 AM
C++ (pronounced "See plus plus") is a statically typed, free-form, multi-paradigm, compiled, general-purpose programming language. I am just kidding i have seen many with your view... I view C++ as having the ability to program in more than one model.
Yes there is a lot of debate about OOP OR NOT OOP with CPP, probably each person
choose his own model and stick with it until the model changes in his mind. :P
Quote from: hutch-- on May 24, 2010, 03:14:44 AM
The C compiler is fine but the runtime libraries are badly designed and have too many functions bundled together so if your code calls one function you get a heap of other stuff as well.
I understand why you Assembly Masters switch to build your own libs,
the only problem is: everyone has his own libs, and they don't interact
easily or at all. Thousands of coding hours per hundreds of Asm coders
to buid 80-90% of the same thing ::)
Does the "Don't reinvent the wheel" thing exist anymore?
Probably there is no solution at all. We like to build our own coding world. :lol
Some twenty years ago I spent 3 years building a complete programming
environment in Clipper with all the stuff to build any application I had to
in few hours, it was a sort of virtual programming. It was DOS time and
If I had to rebuild those stuff for windows it'd take more time than the original
project. Things has became more complex and difficult to master actually. :(
Reading the 14th chapter of "C for dummies"... :P
So far only strange stuff and a humour I can't understand :lol
Frank,
Its not that type of problem, with existing DLLs in Windows you are only creating IMPORT libraries, the function is in fact in the DLL so a call to SetWindowText() or any other API in the system is made directly to the DLL that contains it. All the masm32 version of MSVCRT does is build an import li8brary for the correct DLL, not a later side by side version. Also the build technique for MSVCRT is contained in the project so it is easy enough to understand.
Quote from: joemc on May 24, 2010, 02:20:52 AM
I do discourage mixing them all together.
That's the key right there; it's nice to be able to do either mode in C++, and even nicer for experienced developers to mix the two a little bit when it benefits them. But when those experienced developers write books for newcomers, it just makes life all the more difficult to know what's what. I have three C++ books on my shelf; one goes to great lengths talking about how great pointers are, while the second says to avoid them like the plauge in favor of references, and the third says to eschew both for auto_ptr's. Three books, each with three conflicting "rules" about how to be a C++ programmer. Several other of my C++ books include classes at the end, seemingly as an afterthought.
And while OOP is not required, C++ most certainly *implies* object orientation; for example, one could simply change his #include statments from 'stdio.h' to 'cstdio', and show the source as an example of "a program written entirely in an object oriented language", and be 100% correct, while at the same time being 100% wrong. Any n00B trying to learn OOP from that type of program (or book) would most likely be hopelessly lost.
-r
Quote from: hutch-- on May 24, 2010, 01:01:28 AM
This is a bare C template I did some months ago. Sad to say the standard C runtime libraries are very poorly designed and bloated the file out to over 30k so I used the MASM32 MSVCRT library and it now builds at 4.5k which is competitive to a MASM executable.
Just the addition of the division (Sw/2-wid/2,) sucked in a maths library that blew its size out so the MSVCRT library is probably a must for minimum sized code in VC.
K & R notation filtered through the original Microsoft SDK layout style for API code. It builds but issues a warning on the change from FP to integer.
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
#include <windows.h>
LRESULT CALLBACK WndProc(HWND,UINT,WPARAM,LPARAM);
HANDLE hInstance;
HANDLE hWnd; // global main window handle
HICON hIcon; // local icon handle
HANDLE hMenu;
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
void main()
{
LPMSG pmsg; // pointer for MSG structure
WNDCLASSEX * pwc; // pointer to WNDCLASSEX structure
MSG msg; // local msg structure
WNDCLASSEX wc; // local structure for RegisterClassEx
int wid;
int hgt;
int Sw;
int Sh;
char szTitle[] = "Microsoft C Template";
char szWindowClass[] = "C_Template";
/* --------------------------------
get the application instance handle
-------------------------------- */
hInstance = GetModuleHandle(NULL);
/* ---------------------------------
Copy structure addresses to pointers
--------------------------------- */
pmsg = &msg;
pwc = &wc;
hIcon = LoadIcon(hInstance,(LPCTSTR)5);
wc.cbSize = sizeof(WNDCLASSEX);
wc.style = CS_BYTEALIGNWINDOW | CS_BYTEALIGNCLIENT;
wc.lpfnWndProc = (WNDPROC)WndProc;
wc.cbClsExtra = 0;
wc.cbWndExtra = 0;
wc.hInstance = hInstance;
wc.hIcon = hIcon;
wc.hCursor = LoadCursor(NULL, IDC_ARROW);
wc.hbrBackground = (HBRUSH)(COLOR_WINDOW+1);
wc.lpszMenuName = NULL;
wc.lpszClassName = szWindowClass;
wc.hIconSm = hIcon;
RegisterClassEx(pwc);
Sw = GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXSCREEN); // screen width
Sh = GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYSCREEN); // screen height
wid = Sw * .70;
hgt = Sh * .70;
/* -------------------------------
limit the aspect ratio to 1.4 to 1
------------------------------- */
if (wid > hgt * 1.4)
{
wid = hgt * 1.4;
}
hWnd = CreateWindowEx(WS_EX_LEFT,
szWindowClass,
szTitle,
WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW,
Sw/2-wid/2,
Sh/2-hgt/2,
wid,hgt,
NULL,NULL,hInstance,NULL);
hMenu = LoadMenu(hInstance,(LPCTSTR)10);
SetMenu(hWnd,hMenu);
ShowWindow(hWnd,SW_SHOW);
UpdateWindow(hWnd);
while (GetMessage(pmsg,NULL,0,0))
{
switch (msg.message)
{
case WM_KEYUP:
{
switch (msg.wParam)
{
case VK_F1:
{
MessageBox(hWnd,"You pressed the F1 key","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
}
case VK_F2:
{
MessageBox(hWnd,"You pressed the F2 key","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
}
}
}
}
TranslateMessage(pmsg);
DispatchMessage(pmsg);
}
}
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
LRESULT CALLBACK WndProc(HWND hWin,UINT uMsg,WPARAM wParam,LPARAM lParam)
{
switch (uMsg)
{
case WM_COMMAND:
{
switch (wParam)
{
case 1010:
MessageBox(hWnd,"Open File","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case 1020:
MessageBox(hWnd,"Save File","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case 1090:
SendMessage(hWnd,WM_SYSCOMMAND,SC_CLOSE,(LPARAM)NULL);
break;
case 5000:
MessageBox(hWnd,"C template with no STATIC C runtime library","About",MB_OK);
break;
}
break;
}
case WM_CLOSE:
MessageBox(hWnd,"WM_CLOSE Here","Howdy",MB_OK);
break;
case WM_DESTROY:
PostQuitMessage(0);
break;
}
return DefWindowProc(hWin,uMsg,wParam,lParam);
}
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
Sorry HUTCH, I tried to compile this example, provided by you, with Pelle's C
but I probably missed something. During the compilation it says:
C:\Documents and Settings\My Documents\Pelles C Projects\Samples\Win_API_HUTCH.c(16): warning #2181: Incorrect signature for entry-point 'main'; expected 'int __cdecl function(void)' but found 'void __cdecl function(void)'.
Building Win_API_HUTCH.exe.
POLINK: error: Unresolved external symbol '_WinMain@16'.
POLINK: fatal error: 1 unresolved external(s).
*** Error code: 1 ***
Done.
What did I forget?
Frank
Quote from: frktons on May 25, 2010, 08:04:40 AM
What did I forget?
rename
void main() into
int WinMainCRTStartup()that works for me...
Frank,
You probably don't have the right stuff to build it. Its done with the VCTOOLKIT and the matching SDK and C libraries.
I use this batch file.
@echo off
set lib=h:\vctoolkit\lib\
set include=h:\vctoolkit\include\
h:\vctoolkit\bin\rc.exe rsrc.rc
if exist project2.exe del project2.exe
if exist project2.obj del project2.obj
h:\vctoolkit\bin\cl /c /O1 /Os /TC project2.c
h:\vctoolkit\bin\Link /SUBSYSTEM:WINDOWS /entry:main /libpath:h:\vctoolkit\lib @project2.rsp rsrc.res
: h:\vctoolkit\bin\cl /c /G7 /O2 /Ot /GA /TC /W3 /FA project2.c
: h:\masm32\bin\PoLink /SUBSYSTEM:WINDOWS /entry:main /libpath:h:\msc6\lib @project2.rsp
dir project2.*
pause
and this response file saved as "project2.rsp".
project2.obj
kernel32.lib
user32.lib
gdi32.lib
msvcrt.lib
With Microsoft VC if you spec the main function as void you miss the C runtime library which is what I was after with this build. It uses the masm32 MSVCRT instead for the simple arithmetic operators.
Quote from: TmX on May 25, 2010, 12:03:08 PM
Quote from: frktons on May 25, 2010, 08:04:40 AM
What did I forget?
rename void main() into int WinMainCRTStartup()
that works for me...
It worked for me too :U
It gives a couple of warnings, and builds the prog successfully. :P
Building win_template.obj.
C:\Users\Documents\Pelles C Projects\Samples\Win_template\win_template.c(18): warning #2027: Missing prototype for 'WinMainCRTStartup'.
C:\Users\Documents\Pelles C Projects\Samples\Win_template\win_template.c(16): warning #2096: Missing return value.
Building win_template.exe.
Done.
Quote from: hutch-- on May 25, 2010, 12:33:06 PM
Frank,
You probably don't have the right stuff to build it. Its done with the VCTOOLKIT and the matching SDK and C libraries...
I think all the needed stuff is already there, in fact I've installed vc2003/vc2008 and vc2010 and a
lot more tools [the latest from MS SDK...].
By the way the size of the EXE is: 3.072 byte, and so your aim was achieved I guess. :P
The program displays an empty window, and when I try to close it, a Message Box appears
with the usual button for closing it all.
F1 and F2 make more Message Boxes to appear.
If the program was intended to do that, it works fine. :U
Thanks to both of you for assisting me in my fisrt steps into "C" as well :bg
Frank
Frank,
Here is the resource file to link in with it.
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
#include "\vctoolkit\include\windows.h"
5 ICON MOVEABLE PURE LOADONCALL DISCARDABLE "PROJECT.ICO"
10 MENUEX MOVEABLE IMPURE LOADONCALL DISCARDABLE
BEGIN
POPUP "&File", , , 0
BEGIN
MENUITEM "&Open File", 1010
MENUITEM "&Save File", 1020
MENUITEM "", , 0x0800 /*MFT_SEPARATOR*/
MENUITEM "&Exit", 1090
END
POPUP "&Help", , , 0
BEGIN
MENUITEM "&About", 5000
END
END
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
Make yourselrf a normal 766 byte icon and it will build at 4.5k.
Quote from: hutch-- on May 26, 2010, 01:31:46 AM
Frank,
Here is the resource file to link in with it.
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
#include "\vctoolkit\include\windows.h"
5 ICON MOVEABLE PURE LOADONCALL DISCARDABLE "PROJECT.ICO"
10 MENUEX MOVEABLE IMPURE LOADONCALL DISCARDABLE
BEGIN
POPUP "&File", , , 0
BEGIN
MENUITEM "&Open File", 1010
MENUITEM "&Save File", 1020
MENUITEM "", , 0x0800 /*MFT_SEPARATOR*/
MENUITEM "&Exit", 1090
END
POPUP "&Help", , , 0
BEGIN
MENUITEM "&About", 5000
END
END
/* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ */
Make yourselrf a normal 766 byte icon and it will build at 4.5k.
Strange things have happened when I have compiled the resource file, added an icon
and build the whole project with Pelle's C.
1 - AVG says the program contains a trojan: Cryptic.GS
2 - Win7 tells me that I cannot access the device or the path/folder required
I attach all the files so that somebody can help me understand what's happening.
Frank
Frank,
It sounds like you need to shoot AVG. It does have its share of bad habits like this.
Shoot them all :U
Sophos slams scientist 'infected' with computer virus (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/052710-sophos-slams-scientist-infected-with.html?hpg1=bn)
Awesome I had to sit through that twaddle on the BBC last night :lol
Quote from: hutch-- on May 27, 2010, 02:32:56 PM
Frank,
It sounds like you need to shoot AVG. It does have its share of bad habits like this.
And if I made some errors? I mean I am not sure I did it right with the
resource file and the icon, so Win7 doesn't want to run it.
The only thing I changed was this line:
#include "\vctoolkit\include\windows.h"
with:
#include <windows.h>
because that folder doesn't exist on my pc.
AVG doesn't matter, I can temporarily disable it, but why the exe doesn't run?
I surely missed something, I am a "n00b" after all. :P
Frank
Hi frktons,
With custom C start-up modules, you can create small C executables :
pocc /Ze /Zx /Ox Window.c
polink /SUBSYSTEM:WINDOWS Window.obj kernel32.lib user32.lib crt0\crt0.lib
Quote from: Vortex on May 27, 2010, 09:12:17 PM
Hi frktons,
With custom C start-up modules, you can create small C executables :
pocc /Ze /Zx /Ox Window.c
polink /SUBSYSTEM:WINDOWS Window.obj kernel32.lib user32.lib crt0\crt0.lib
OK Vortex :U
What about adding the resource file and the ico I posted and see the complete
template object at work?
It doesn't run on my Win7 installation. ::)
It doesn't run because although AVG claims to have been disabled, the on access protection is still blocking Windows from accessing the file, hence the error message. I used AVG for a few years, that is how i know about file access being blocked once AVG flags it as malware, but they got steadily worse to the point where i changed AV. At the moment i'm just using MS Security Essentials, its enough for what i do.
HR,
Ghandi
Quote from: Ghandi on May 28, 2010, 05:53:35 AM
It doesn't run because although AVG claims to have been disabled, the on access protection is still blocking Windows from accessing the file, hence the error message. I used AVG for a few years, that is how i know about file access being blocked once AVG flags it as malware, but they got steadily worse to the point where i changed AV. At the moment i'm just using MS Security Essentials, its enough for what i do.
HR,
Ghandi
Thanks Ghandi, I'll give it a try as soon as I am on my pc.
Frank
Frank,
We have a sub forum to address the many shortcomings of commercial AV products, its the AV Sh*t List. The problem is that many of the low end of AV vendors don't fully understand the Microsoft Portable Executable specifications and attempt to enforce a subset of those specs by trashing entirely valid executable files. It helps them to get their hit rate up but at the risk of missing serious security problems. If you must use AV stuff, get reliable stuff like Eset's NOD32 or Kaspersky but if you know enough about your OS/Computer, secure it yourself with a decent firewall, make sure your router has NAT enabled and scan your email at the server before you download it.
Simple rule is if malicious code cannot get onto your machine, it cannot harm it. It pays to have either disk imaging software with a backup image or know how to rebuild the OS from its own backup with Win7 so that if something gets past your security system you can simply restore it back to a safe form. This method cannot be beaten as you normally boot the machine off a CD and restore an archived disk image.
About C:
C is a very fast language.It is called High Level Assembly.
One advantage is that you can do many combinations, to condense expressions e.t.c.
It is not blabby.
For example ++i and i++ are two different things.
But the above advantage is a disadvantage also.
A bad programmer can do a program unreadable.
C++ is a culture-language.It has many advantages, like polymorphism, inheritance, templates e.t.c.
With C++ you can make ActiveX Controls easily.
I program in C/C++ 12 years and in Assembly 10 years.
My GenericGrid and DockWnd Controls I wrote the first in C and later in Assembly.
Assembly is the fasted language and give you full control on the machine.
Assembly has two disadvantages:
You have to write too many code and spend time.
You have to write too many comments to remember what you have done in the foretime.
By my above experience, I concluded the follow:
1.When I want to write a small, fast program or if I want to have full control, I use Assembly.
2.When I have to write a big program, I use C++ and templates, (ATL/WTL).
Manos.
C is a very fast language.It is called High Level Assembly.
I like C but don't really see it that way. C/C++ is going to express an idea that becomes machine code, appose to ASM/MASM that is going to be machine code. I guess that may be what you mean by "High Level".
A big advantage to mention is that C code can adapt what it becomes with compiler options and/or updates. If a new processor comes out and needs completely different optimizations, the compiler should be doing this for you ! I think that is 1000 times more important than the lines of code it is going to save you originally. It can also output for different hardware from the same code to begin with. It can also take your "idea" and write it fast in a way that would normally look obfuscated. And finally the C compiler is unfortunately smarter than me.
Actually I'm learning some C syntax because of two main things:
1 - it is the language Windows is mostly written with [and Linux and more OS as well]
2 - a lot of good Assembly books tend to use C as a parallel language to
explain some stuff.
So I told myself "Better to speak some C anyway" :lol
The portability, the wide documentation available, the huge number of forums,
tutorials, libraries, projects and tools are other good things to consider as well.
It'll suffice to understand some API programming under Windows and to
create an intermediate structure for inserting faster Assembly routines when needed. :P
C/MASM are enough for just anything I have in mind, no need for more stuff
for the time being. :lol
Well I solved the AVG problem telling it not to bother with the program
I generate with C/MASM and now everything ig OK. :U
Frank
Hello frktons
I suppose it's a bit late to add to this post but what I figured if you're still learning...
1. Borland had a good Compiler BCC55 ( (no ide :) ) ; which you can still find with a simple search. I tried VCC yrs. ago and never came to terms. The advantage here, is it has an easy to use resource compiler. The end product is a bit bloated, but for starting out, you might find it easier than the Microsoft stuff. And you don't need to call main() WinMain to compile your Windows program. Most people will say it's too old, but it was created for Windows 2000, so it's modern enough to learn with. It also offers a few console functions like getch() , gotoxy() from real mode days.
2. For learning C, I suggest you look in K&R at the standard libraries and just examine the inventory now and again, testing stuff
out as you see it. This will quicken your progress quite a bit. You might want to look at the header files you've been including for definitions and stuff.
3. There are some API books about with small example programs that can help. Jeffrey Richter wrote a nice book about Win programming some yrs. back. For the basics, there's a tutorial from Brook Miles ( the Forger's tutorial ) or something like that.
Easy to find, which covers plenty of basics.
I think C a useful language to know, though I'm sorry about your {} keys. Best of Luck. If you need help, give us a shout.
Thanks locche.
Yes, I'm still learning C/MASM at a snail speed, so to speak. :-)
I'm actually using Pelle's C compiler, that is quite good for a beginner
like me.
I got some books, from beginning to advanced topics that I'm reading
at the same speed as above :-)
And at the same time I try to figure it out how the same things can be done
in MASM, just to stay close to the main objective: learning Assembly.
See you around the forum.
Frank