I live between two big cities Pittsburgh PA and Cleveland Ohio that use to broadcast on VHF and a third city Youngstown Ohio 20 miles away that use to broadcast on UHF. I live on top of a hill. What type of outdoor antenna would I buy? My Sony 36" CRT TV is ATSC ready. I would probably mount this antenna on the third floor attic.
Any suggestions or links to what I would need? I don't watch all that much TV and I'm sick of paying directv 70 bucks a month to watch 4 or 5 channels.
This site, AntennaWeb (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx), will give you a good idea of what type of antenna you need based on your location.
I wish I could get a decent signal here, but I am in a not so good location and I have tall trees all around me. I would need a 100 ft. tower and a huge directional antenna to get anything.
i am sure you can only buy new TV antennas that are "digital ready" - whatever the hell that means
maybe they are selling you an antenna with a band-switchable pre-amp or something
i don't know, and i don't really want to know - as far as i'm concerned, it's all sales hipe
here in Phoenix, nearly all the TV and radio broadcast transmitter antennas are on top of South Mountain
you don't need much of an antenna - you point it at the mountain and get all the TV and FM signals loud and clear
when i was a kid (raised in Michigan), my dad ran a TV repair shop out of the basement - i was his "cheap labor", as in free (the asshole)
we also installed TV towers and antennas - a few hundred of them, i would estimate
Michigan was a similar situation to yours
every channel was transmitted from a different city
we had stations in Lansing, Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Bay City, Saginaw, Detroit, Flint - and so on
the only thing that worked well was a half-way decent antenna, at least 40 feet in the air, with a rotor
most of the ones we installed were "fringe area" logarithmic-periodic dipole array type antennas at 60 feet
being as we were in the business, we had 2 of these fringe antennas (ChannelMaster) phased, which really kicked ass - lol
back then, pre-amps were noisy, which converted to snow in the picture
with digital TV, you shouldn't see that kind of noise
and, pre-amps have come a long way - lower noise - cheaper, too
LPDA TV antenna
(http://www.summitsource.com/images/products/AN1100.jpg)
phasing 2 LPDA's
(http://www.antennamagus.com/images/Antennas/Large/Wire%20zigzag%20log-periodic%20(LPDA)%20antenna%20design.png)
whatever you do, you are going to want the antenna to be outside - not in an attic
a roof-mounted tripod may work well enough - and is a hell of a lot cheaper than a tower
and, you are going to want to be able to rotate it
here is a tripod like i am talking about
this one is 5' - i seem to recall 8 or 10 footers
put a mast pole in it, and you should be able to get at least 12' off the roof (with the 5 footer)
put the rotor near the top of the tripod - or you can mount the rotor to the neck of some tripods
this one does not have a neck - they probably don't make em like that anymore
to mount it, stradle the peak with it - find at least one rafter (one on each side of the peak would be nice)
if you are in a windy area, you may want to put a joyce in the attic between 2 rafters
fasten it with lag bolts and use roofing tar to seal it
(http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Install/TRIPOD-5FT.jpg)
Dave,
From Greg's link above it tells me I can get six stations within 30 miles of home and that is a conservative prediction. Odds are I'll get more then that.
CBS YOUNGSTOWN, OH
IND PITTSBURGH, PA
NBC YOUNGSTOWN, OH
ABC YOUNGSTOWN, OH
FOX YOUNGSTOWN, OH violet
TBN MEADVILLE, PA
I wonder how good those new digital antennas are. Regardless of the antenna I buy I can mount it on the chimney which is about 30 feet high and as I stated before I live high up. When I was a kid we received channels from Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Meadville and Youngstown with a rotatable roof top antenna.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=ANT800&d=RCA-ANT800-Outdoor-Digital-Antenna-(ANT800)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=044476064531
ok - you can use chimney straps
don't try to get too high from the top of the chimney, is all :P
i was going to say - it might be easier to have one antenna pointed at Pittsburg and one at Cleveland - and switch between them
but, you'll want a rotor to get Meadville
also - if you have a rotor, odds are, you'll be able to get other stations that you did not list
Well I'm going to investigate further before I make a decision. I want to check out those new flat digital antennas that are supposedly multi-direction first. If I can receive 4 to 5 channels I'd be content. Most the crap on TV these days makes me sick.
Quote from: dedndave
i am sure you can only buy new TV antennas that are "digital ready" - whatever the hell that means
maybe they are selling you an antenna with a band-switchable pre-amp or something
i don't know, and i don't really want to know
Probably tuned/confined to the UHF 470-699 MHz band (Channels 14-51), as the move to digital was designed to free 700-805 MHz (52-69) from Analog TV, as well as the VHF bands used by the channels 1-13.
Cheaper to make, sell it for more, cause it's Digital
i wasn't aware of them freeing up the VHF channels
i still have stations from 3 to 12
as for channel 1 - lol - they had to give that one up to ham radio long ago - we call it the "6 meter band"
Yeah, we have a VHF channel 9 here in Seattle, they were talking about eliminating the VHF channels with digital but then they never did it.
Dave,
6 meters is a fun band when it's open, trouble is most of the time it's not. But I do love 6 meters. I have VUCC on 6.
Bill,
I'm not sure the gain would be very good with that RCA ANT800, but you could try it. I think you'd be best off with a directional antenna with a rotor.
very cool Greg - didn't know you were a ham - lol - or i forgot - gettin old
rags is also a ham
the guys in the pacific really love 6
i have heard they can "tunnel" all the way from Hawaii to Australia, even when the band is dead
we started playing with 2 meter FM when i was very young
we had an old Motorla 80D at home that kicked butt
in the van, dad had converted an old GE prog line by replacing the 2E26 final with a 6146 :P
i can still here that dynamo fire up when you hit the mic button - lol
as for the omnidirectional antenna - it might be worth while for Bill to try it
mount it on the chimney, as planned
the antenna probably isn't too expensive to try it out
you could even add a pre-amp at the antenna to see if you get a few stations
my thinking is...
if it doesn't pan out - he hasn't wasted too much money
the chimney straps and mast are still usable with a rotatable antenna, as well as a pre-amp
the cable - everything but the antenna itself would be in place if he decided to upgrade to a gain antenna with a rotor
there is a hint here, Bill :bg
at the antenna end, leave a coil of coax (6 feet or so) in case you want to change antennas
you want a few feet to make a loop around the rotor and a few more feet to reach the feedpoint - better make it 7 feet - lol
of course, if you have a pre-amp, it could be mounted just above the rotor - then the extra length isn't as critical
Quote from: dedndave
i wasn't aware of them freeing up the VHF channels i still have stations from 3 to 12
Pretty sure that's the plan, the phase over to digital took way to long, with far too much dithering around and delay. There are no legacy reasons for keeping the lower channels for TV, all the digitial receivers can use the upper ones.
Dave,
Yeah, I'm a General and my call is N7YAP. I got rid of my tower and big HF antennas when we moved 5 years ago, so I'm not very active now. I do have a 6/2/70cm vertical up but that's it. I kept a good 6 meter yagi but it's in storage. I kept a Yaesu FT-100D radio too.
The omni probably is worth a try.
Clive,
I'm pretty sure the plan to eliminate the VHF band from TV was scrapped. It wouldn't have bothered me if they did, it makes sense.
it may well be that they have that transition planned in the future
the stations may not have wanted to spend all the money to switch over at the same time as changing format
the big communication companies have a lot of pull in congress
Greg - i haven't been too active lately, myself
i prefer 40 meter CW - chase a little DX 80-10 - used to chase the paper - now i just like to make a few contacts
i still enjoy a good pile-up, but don't care if i get the card - lol
my call is K7NL - ex-WB8AMH, WA7RZZ, KC7X - been a ham since 1968 (age 12 :P )
http://www.qrz.com/db/k7nl
Quote from: dedndave on May 05, 2010, 02:18:29 AM
it may well be that they have that transition planned in the future the stations may not have wanted to spend all the money to switch over at the same time as changing format
the big communication companies have a lot of pull in congress
Let's just presume they delayed the migration, it's not like they are paying market rates for the spectrum. The broadcast companies, the terrestrial over-the-air ones, are largely irrelevant politically. Heck Comedy Central has more sway.
Don't the military and first responders want the spectrum?
And for those who think Loran will get a reprieve, I offer 1350 ft of crashing tower
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu-DFU7Xwq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zqj1hy9NS8&NR=1
you might be surprised just how many of these little stations are owned, at least partially, by ted turner :P
collectively, the communications companies in this country can get whatever bills they want passed into law
they almost don't even need lobbyists - they can paint a politician bad or good with the swipe of a pen
Dave, I just checked the QRZ site and realized I forgot to change my address with the FCC. It's only been 6 years since I moved from the listed address. LOL
When I was a kid my dad had one of them rotor antennas. "Son, go out and turn the antenna!". :bg
AntennaWeb (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx) says conservatively I can receive 4 digital and 2 analog channels.
(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/channels.jpg)
I think if I want to get serious about it a good element antenna with a rotor would be best. I have, since I fell into this idea, noticed many others around the area with element antennas on their roofs. I get over 200 channels which includes music from my directv service that I never listen to and watch maybe 5 or 6 channels on a regular bases. Thats $70 I'm spending a month for a half dozen channels that get watched. That and this time of year we get many days of cloudy rainy days and right in the middle of something you lose the dish single. I feel like I'm throwing money away.
Speaking of rain, we get some pretty nasty thunder and lighting storms so I suppose I should ground a chimney mounted antenna.
I'm told from where I live this is all I need to receive the above channels.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Amplified-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-Motor-Rotor-BA2605-/330428911122?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cef190e12
there ya go, Bill :U
nice low wind-load, too
I'm ordering one of those rotor antennas for $58.88 that even includes the shipping. From what I can gather these small 2 ft by 2 ft multi-direction bowtie antennas work great with digital signals if you're close enough to the source. When you think about it digital transmission is all or nothing and I should be able to at least lock onto six or more digital channels where I'm located. Hey, at that price it's worth a look. :bg
Just wanted to follow-up my HDTV Antenna adventures. Went with the following gear mounted in my third floor attic and receive crystal clear some 29 channels most in high def.
Eight Bowtie 34 element antenna.
http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=6549
Antenna Pre-amp.
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-ap-4800-chromstar-2000-series-uhf-pre-amplifier-hdtv-antenna-booster-outdoor-offair-television-aerial-75-ohm-signal-preamplifier-vhf-bypassed-uhf-28-db-117-vac-ul-listed-part-ap-4800-p-4661.html
Automatic Rotor.
http://www.summitsource.com/antenna-rotor-automatic-rotator-outdoor-3-wire-centronics-ar-300xl-mast-with-head-controler-outdoor-for-local-tv-offair-television-aerial-signal-reception-part-ar300xl-p-6869.html
List of the channels I receive (note that many channels have sub-channels).
2 (channels 2.1)
(25) KDKA City: Pittsburgh, PA
Owner: CBS Corporation
Station Info: Digital Full-Power - 1000 kW
4 (channels 4.1)
(51) WTAE City: Pittsburgh, PA
Owner: Hearst Television
Station Info: Digital Full-Power - 1000 kW
11 (channels 11.1 - 11.2)
(48) WPXI City: Pittsburgh, PA
Owner: Cox Enterprises
Station Info: Digital Full-Power - 1000 kW
16 (channels 16.1 - 16.2)
(38) WQEX Shopping City: Pittsburgh, PA
Owner: WQED Multimedia
Station Info: Digital Full-Power - 500 kW
22 (channels 22.1)
(42) WPMY ID: "My TV Pittsburgh"
City: Pittsburgh, PA
Owner: Sinclair Broadcast Group
Station Info: Digital Full-Power - 1000 kW
53 (channels 53.1)
(43) WPGH ID: "FOX 53"
City: Pittsburgh, PA
Owner: Sinclair Broadcast Group
Station Info: Digital Full-Power - 1000 kW
21 (channels 21.1 - 21.2)
WFMJ City: Youngstown, OH
Station Info: Digital Full-Power
27 (channels 27.1 - 27.2)
WKBN ID: "27 CBS"
City: Youngstown, OH
Owner: Piedmont Television
Station Info: Digital Full-Power
33 (channels 33.1 - 33.2 - 33.3)
WYTV City: Youngstown, OH
Owner: Chelsey Broadcasting
Station Info: Digital Full-Power
45 (channels 45.1 - 45.2 - 45.3 - 45.4)
WNEO City: Alliance, OH
Owner: Northeastern Educational Television of Ohio
Station Info: Digital Educational Full-Power
12 (channels 12.1)
(52) WICU City: Erie, PA
Station Info: Digital Full-Power
24 (channels 24.1)
WJET ID: "JET-TV"
City: Erie, PA
Owner: Nexstar
Station Info: Digital Full-Power
35 (channels 35.1 - 35.2 - 35.3)
(16) WSEE City: Erie, PA
Owner: Lily Broadcasting
Station Info: Digital Full-Power
54 (channels 54.1 - 54.2 - 54.3 - 54.4)
(50) WQLN City: Erie, PA
Owner: Public Broadcasting of Northwest Pennsylvania
Station Info: Digital Educational Full-Power - 39.1 kW
66 (channels 66.1)
(22) WFXP ID: "FOX 66"
City: Erie, PA
Owner: Mission Broadcasting
Station Info: Digital Full-Power
great Bill
glad to hear it :bg
I bet there is nothing worth watching on any of them :bg
All re-runs, quiz shows and bad news
Nice... Bill said he would be happy with 6 channels and he appears to be pleased with the results, but do you congratulate him like Dave did? No... Instead you rained on his parade, knocking the shine off it... :boohoo:
Nah, i'm just messing with you. :U
HR,
Ghandi
even if the programming does sux - it's nice just to know "we have the technology" to pick up the channels- lol
The way I see it I can pay $65 bucks a month to DirecTV for 150 channels of nothing or receive 29 channels of nothing for absolutely FREE !! :bg
well - you failed to report the cost of the antenna - a one-time cost of probably under $100 :P
:lol sorry it was rather a downer comment :bg, having barely survived on the odd internet news video over the past some months I can see that it would also have it's upsides :lol, maybe it's my age but I'm having a real problem with the propaganda streams we receive of late, sub divided by country, language and owned and controlled by a few....
I really dont understand why I cant either watch something someone in the states is talking to me about or show them something I have seen, I just feel like a prisoner in my own country right now, desperately wanting to interact with the world but blocked at every turn. I understand it to some degree but seriously, I have had more friends outside the UK than in it in 18 years online, most of them more trustworthy yet I cannot visit them. Now IMHO that's oppression in the free world, being talked at by National TV is like some form of psycological torture.... I know what British opinions are on absolutely everything, some I agree with, many not :lol, I dont care to be talked at. Intelligence is being able to look at stuff from every different angle, you cant do that with such a narrow nationalistic perspective.
yah - we get the same biased reporting here
in fact, i suspect our politicians/media have it refined to more of a science than yours - lol
i look to the BBC to supplement the news we get here, and to get a different viewpoint :P
I have always looked to the states as being 6 months to 8 years ahead of us here in the UK but last year I had an 'epiphany', I cant really describe it other than to say I saw the world in a new light and realised that for all our technologies we in the west are less advanced in some ways than other countries in the east....
I realised that we weren't coping with the technological advances, they were overwriting our understandings of the world faster than we could keep up (and more importantly overwriting the valid tried and tested stories we tell our children in a generation something never done before).... I knew this point would come at the age of 13 when I looked ahead to Peta (Peter :lol) flop computing, now it's here I see everything I expected, a generation that still cant use computers, a generation taken in by the tech hype with no peers to guide them, and a generation to come that will have to deal with a virtualised world where they will never know what is real and what is fake.... I have seen algorithms and machine learning that can fake almost anything you see on TV and it scares me to know some had it many many years before I even conceived of it.... I also know so many broken encryption standards currently in use....
Next time you see something on TV just ask yourself, is what you are watching on TV beamed from a satelite or generated on a local computer? Is the soap you are watching generated by people or simply output off a database of potential human interactions and the affect they will have on your thought process?
I know what you're going to say.... He's going off on one.... That doesnt happen.... Oh rly.... Then talk to my handler cos this bot isnt listening :lol
PS. the worlds top 500 computers is actually a volentary project.... It doesnt represent the height of our computing expertise in the least as it only lists computers submitted and those for purposes that are publishable. There is nothing to say IMHO that the capability to mutate the media viewed by every single person on the planet doesnt exist.... With some fancy ASM you can almost do it on a home PC and they are already talking about exahertz level SCs quite openly (1 billion times faster than your average PC)
http://www.top500.org/