Thoughts on building your own PC

[lingo]

"For normal use, I just purchase a retail box CPU.."

"Normal use" is different for different people...  :lol
Example:
Under Vista Ultimate with Windows DreamScene we have 5C more and 15% more CPU
usage just to watch nonstop movie on the screen as a desktop background
It is the price of the fun...

So, soon with the new stuff we will forget about cpu/heatsink and fans
and will talk about water cooling systems ONLY...  :lol
Example:
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=2&l2=6&l3=442&model=1565&modelmenu=1
and
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/pages/458117.aspx

[P1]

I personally don't think the average person (me included) has the skills necessary to build a PC from scratch.

I would not beleive this so quickly.

I would not compare you to the 'average person' in the first place.  The 'average person' has never been inside their box.  Let alone, inside a program.  I am sure you could put a system together from what you have said.  Same rules as changing components, except you change all of them at once and in a decent order.

Even the 'average person' can do well by being an informed shopper.  And seeking guidance with his purchase. 

The buy versus build arguement boils down to support and warranty.  At least with a Dell, you get step by step support until it runs out of warranty.   :eek

Anyway, I have worked on an IBM assembly line.  High School grads do just fine putting them together. It's the trouble shooting people that earn their money.   :lol

Regards,  P1  :8)

[PBrennick]

The thing to remember about fans is with today's high speed CPU's and what not combined with the need to maintain a small package (HDs for example), maintaining a temperature that is BELOW the spec. is important. The reason for this is because heat causes the components to break down over time. Someone, in his infinite wisdom, has decided what the normal life expectancy of a system is. With that base, it is easy to calculate the heat degradation factor so as to come up with the temperature it should run at. The problem here is that a lot of people want their systems to last longer so the best thing to do is add more fans.

I agree with Lingo whole-heartedly for the reasons stated above.

Paul

[lingo]

shankle.

Here is a proof about my Zalman heatsink and fan:
When I overclocked with 17%
it works under Vista with CPU clock - 4220MHz (original 3600Mhz)
and non-load temperature - CPU 48C and mobo  38C
full load temperature - CPU  75C and mobo 40C
(see attachment)

When I overclocked with 25% Vista works
but  I can't pass the CPU stress test  from Everest Ultimate program
Hence, to pass it needs water cooling system.... :lol

Ok, if I want to buy water cooling system in the future
I will mount it without any troubles in my current PC case
because it has such option by default  :lol

But what about additional power about it?
No, problem because I have
OCZ GameXStream 850W SLI ATX 12V Ver 2.2
(with 120mm big fan)  Power Supply too.  :lol

Regards,
Lingo


[attachment deleted by admin]

[MichaelW]

Lingo,

Proof of what? It is well established that CPU temperature increases with clock speed and load. You seem to be implying that an increase in cooling capacity will guarantee stable operation at a higher clock speed. It should be obvious to you that it will not. In previous posts you have essentially stated that the Intel supplied HSF for the Retail Box processors are inadequate. This is unlikely to be so. It's much more likely that the failure was due to unusual conditions inside your case and/or operating the CPU outside the Intel specs. You are an extremist -- most users are not. Most users do not operate their CPU outside the specs. Most users expect a system to be reliable and reasonably quiet.

[lingo]

I have no reason to be overclocked permanently
because my PC is fast enough for me...
Proof: See my Windows Experience Index from attachment  :lol

I'm curious to see your index.... :lol

I played with Everest Ultimate and ASUS options
just to test my new Zalman heatsink&fan


"Most users expect a system to be reliable and reasonably quiet"

Me too and my new Zalman is more quiet than my Intel heatsink&fan
The secret is in the radius of the fans and their rotating speed
The small Intel fan with big speed is loud and it's cheap heatsink is inefficient too..

I use just half power of my Zalman's fan too..     :lol
 


[attachment deleted by admin]

[hutch--]

It probably has a bit to do with where you live, in Sydney you get ambient temperatures up to 40C in the summer and the reason why I have gone into overkill mode with processor cooling is that its cheap enough and very reliable apart from being a pig to put together but the result I am after is very little temperature rise above ambient temperature.

I tend to get about 2 to 3 degress centigrade over ambient which means that even on a stinking hot 40C day the processor runs at 43 or 44 degrees C which is acceptable. I used to get the effect with my older dev PIV where if I was running it at 100% in my room with the blower heater on the processor would rise over the trigger temperature of 55C and start to squark teperature warnings at me. The heatsink fixed that problem very quickly. With the two new PIVs, both ran out of the box at something like 65C on idle so I though "No way Jose" and heatsinked them both as well.

Idle temperature dropped to about 27C in both new PIVs. As far as noise, my old dev box has 3 case fans (the noisy crappy little ones), a video card extractor fan (cost peanuts) a rubber isolated processor heatsink fan in push mode, a large powersupply fan and  a much larger exhaust fan behind the 4 HDDs and YES its noisy but who cares, I am used to it but the box has been running for over 3 years with long hours and is still super reliable.

[Timbo]

Greetings,

On the original topic, I always build my own boxes.  For me it isn't about price so much, but as a hobby too.  The obvious drawback to building your own is that you have noone but yourself to complain to when something goes wrong.

I'm sure everyone here knows this, but I love to say it: eMachines are the spawn of satan.

Regards,

Tim

[drhowarddrfine]

My cheap brother has three eMachines for years but has not had any problems with them.