Buying computer hardware

[Ossa]

Just a note, not important as you don't want it, but SLI is for NVIDIA graphics cards, Crossfire is for ATI.

DDR is the older type DDR2 is newer, but because AMD does not have it's AM2 stuff out yet, memory manufacturers havn't payed much attention to making decent DDR2 memory yet. As a result, the DDR2 memory isn't performing as well as it should be. Basically, the top end DDR memory is still faster than DDR2, but DDR2 is the future and is capable of scaling much higher... If you were to build your computer later this year, I would say, go for DDR2. However, the DDR is what you should go for now (and, i might be wrong, but the processor and motherboard that you've chosen don't support DDR2). So your fastest memory to go for is DDR-400 (thats what your motherboard supports).

IDE is the older internal standard... SATA is going to replace it. Your board supports SATA - get a SATA drive. (SCSI is something I've never investigated, but as far as I can see, it's mostly used for servers).

Power supplies are fairly easy - choose a good manufacturer and make sure that it has a high enough power rating for all the stuff in your PC... 350W should cover most of it... you might get away with a 300W - I haven't studied your component's power specs much. You work this out by reading the specs for each component in your PC, find the power requirements... add them all up and get a PSU which has a rating bigger than that (and if you might add other bits and pieces later, give yourself some wiggle room).

Ossa

[edit] As far as pricing goes, ebuyer seems fairly similar to microdirect - sound card is GBP 10 less on MD, motherboard GBP 2 less, processor GBP 5 more... not worth choosing MD over ebuyer (and MD doesnt have the graphics card you want) [/edit]

[RedXVII]

Wow, cheers Ossa. Thats the kinda info i need. asmfan suggested the same thing - wait for AM2 to come out. So i just looked up AM2 and its going to be released fairly soonish, in which case the market will have to rearrange its prices.  :green  So im gonna wait it out.

The only bad this about this, of course, is i still have to put up with the machine im currently using. Its totally bust, right ear on soundcard doesnt work, distorted lcd picture (fuzzy AND verticle lines, at the edge of windows objects, drawn in the wrong place so gaps appear), it crashes/restarts when i say something funny into the microphone, frequently overheats and its a laptop (so there always a huge compatability issue with most programs, and i get the wierdest lcd resolution ive ever seen). Ive tried fixing it of course, but ive just given up - thats it, into the trash can. I suppose i could hold out for a month though.

I'll post back in a ~month.

Thanks all  :U

[Mark Jones]

  With this, i can get the OEM for much cheaper, but seeing as i dont know anything about system building, i didnt know if the OEM came with any of those wee wires you have to attatch in the box.

OEM parts, nowadays, in my opinion, are okay for basic usage. There was a time when "OEM" was synonomous with "crap" but not so much anymore (there are quite a few Intel "OEM" boards which are quite robust and stable, etc. But generally, an OEM board will usually include all the wires and connectors and whatnot needed to connect any proprietary ports which are not built-in to the board itself (i.e., like a USB plug and cord if the USB port is not onboard.) Generally though, this shouldn't happen very often.

  After that, i want 2gB of the fastest RAM i could get my hands on. But i got confused looking for "DDR400" when the words "PC3200" and "DDR2" popped up.

The memory requirement depends on the capabilities of the mainboard and the type of board architecture. If I recall correctly, Slot-A boards use DDR memory exclusively, while Pentium boards use PC memory. In any case, the details of the mainboard will stipulate which type of memory you need. All memory types are different and none can be interchanged.

  Then i went to look at the hard drive. And dont have the foggiest clue what the difference between a IDE, SATA, SCSI drive types.

IDE = Standard hard drive. They make these in slower (5200 RPM) and faster (7,000 or maybe even 10,000 now) RPM versions. The faster the disc(s) spin, typically the faster the data transfer rate (but compare the ratings to make sure.) There are quite a few IDE speed standards, the oldest being IDE-33 and the newest being ATA-166 or so. An IDE cable is 40 wires where an IDE-ATA cable is 80 wires, so if you get an ATA-specced drive (probably all you're going to find nowadays) then be sure to get the IDE-ATA 80-wire cable. The mainboard should automatically detect the capabilities of the drive and configure it automatically.

SATA = Serial ATA drive. Uses a thin little data wire, which can help wire routing in a cramped box. Drives are supposed to be better than IDE-ATA, but in real-world performance vs. cost, it might not be worth it.

SCSI = Old hard disk type. Still commonly used, was faster than IDE for a long time. Still has its uses in disk arrays for purposes of redundancy and/or speed.

Disk Array = it's possible to get a board which has a built-in IDE, SATA, or SCSI array controller (usually what is called 2+0 Stripe.) This means that it can take two hard disks and "stripe" data across both at the same time, effectively making data access twice as fast. (In reality it's only like 25-50% faster.) The drawback is, that it's twice as likely for a disk to die, and literally half of every cluster of data will be lost. (Always backup your important data!) Some boards (like server boards) might include a 0+2 array, meaning the same data is copied to both disks simultaneously, for redundancy purposes. This way, if one disk dies, the other is still working.

  Also, can anyone advise what kind of power supply ill need? (how the hell are you meant to know this?)

Experience. :)

Most newer boards use what is called an ATX power supply. Check the board specifications for the type required, then just buy that type. There's only two types, and the older AT-style supply is not as common anymore. The only choice you have is the wattage of the supply, like a 150-watt ATX or a 250-W ATX supply. If all you've got in the box is one (new) hard disk (the newer ones typically use less power) and very little else in the box, use a 150W supply. If you've got four SATA disks, a video capture card, a TV tuner card, and a ton of other extra stuff, get a 250W supply. Many would tell you to just put in a 250W supply anyways. Not many people know this but if you put a 250W supply in a "tiny" computer, it uses more electricity than a 150W supply would in the same computer. This cost can add up over years of operation, and does nothing but help heat your room!

AMD has computer building how-tos which are useful for any topology, check them out: http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869,00.html

[Ossa]

Most newer boards use what is called an ATX power supply. Check the board specifications for the type required, then just buy that type. There's only two types, and the older AT-style supply is not as common anymore. The only choice you have is the wattage of the supply, like a 150-watt ATX or a 250-W ATX supply. If all you've got in the box is one (new) hard disk (the newer ones typically use less power) and very little else in the box, use a 150W supply. If you've got four SATA disks, a video capture card, a TV tuner card, and a ton of other extra stuff, get a 250W supply. Many would tell you to just put in a 250W supply anyways. Not many people know this but if you put a 250W supply in a "tiny" computer, it uses more electricity than a 150W supply would in the same computer. This cost can add up over years of operation, and does nothing but help heat your room!

Mark, these numbers are too low for the hardware specified:

350-Watt power supply or greater recommended

Quoted from http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx850/radeonx850series/index.html

150W is really not good for much with modern hardware... you're looking at 250W minimum for almost anything now-a-days. Just take a quick flip through the detailed specs for newish CPUs (~100W) and graphics cards (varies a lot).

Ossa

[hutch--]

This much with power supplies, go for a BIG one as they are far less prone to die on you. I currently use twn fan 500 watt power supplies in a number of boxes and they do last a lot longer. With memory, look up the specs of the board and use what is fastest if the cost diference is not too high. With HDDs, serial ATA is the way to go, I have 2 serial and 2 parallel ata drives on my current dev box and the speed is no difference but serial ATA is the future so i would go that way if the board supports it.

My last comment is if you can wait, do so as this technology is changing very fast and 6 months will make it a different set of rules to follow.

[RedXVII]

Last night i was doing some programming/gaming. My machine packed in again and its so frustrating. Ive considored that when AM2 comes out, there wont be any processor speed increases till end of about Q3~Q4, which probably mean little in way of price change, which means its not worth the wait for me.

Heres where im at so far...
AMD Athlon 64 3700 CPU Skt 939
Sapphire Radeon X850 XT 256M GDDR3 PCI-E
Asus A8N-E SKT 939 NFORCE 4 AUDIO LAN PCI-Express ATX
Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 4 PCI Soundcard
2x Kingston 1GB 400MHz DDR PC3200 DIMM 3-3-3
  I hear kingston is a good maker of RAM - can someone confirm?
Asus TA-210 Mid Tower Case Black/Silver with 360W PSU
  This case is for an "ASUS" board right? Well it only supports 1xAGP and 6xPCI slots, is this ok for my board, and with it fit?
Western Digital WD2500KS Caviar SE 250GB 7200RPM SATA2/300 16MB Cache - OEM
  This one looks ok - and "SATA2" is mentioned on the motherboard page. So i geuss that will be ok.

Also, of course, a copy of Windows xp...

How am i doing? Did i miss anything? I going buy this by the end of the day if no one says anything.

Cheers  :U

[Ossa]

Also, of course, a copy of Windows xp...

How am i doing? Did i miss anything? I going buy this by the end of the day if no one says anything.

Looking good to me. By the way, you can download (or request a CD copy of) a 180-day trial copy of Windoze XP 64 Pro from the MS website... which might last you until Vista comes out (but probably not). It will cost you £90.95 (inc. VAT) on ebuyer otherwise: http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/97546

You might want a DVD (maybe RW?) drive though!!! Floppy disks are next to useless now, but if you don't have one, a USB flash drive might not be a bad investment (you can always get this later though... wait and see is probably the best course here). I take it you have speakers too? and keyboard, mouse... don't forget these just because they're cheap.

Ossa

[Ossa]

The link for XP 64 is http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/trial.mspx - forgot to include that.

Ossa

[Ghirai]

[/url] I hear kingston is a good maker of RAM - can someone confirm?

Yeah, the're good, but imo Twinmos are better, and Corsair are the best :bg

[P1]

... Corsair are the best :bg

Yes, they are, when handled properly.

Regards,  P1  :8)

[RedXVII]

Corsair it is! Ossa: thats a pretty nifty idea for windows xp, i think ill be doing that :bg

AMD Athlon 64 3700 CPU Skt 939
Sapphire Radeon X850 XT 256M GDDR3 PCI-E
Asus A8N-E SKT 939 NFORCE 4 AUDIO LAN PCI-Express ATX
Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 4 PCI Soundcard
2x    Corsair (VS1GB400C3) 1024MB, DDR400 / PC3200, non-ECC, 184 DIMM, unbuffered, CL3, 64Mx8 DRAMs
Asus TA-210 Mid Tower Case Black/Silver with 360W PSU
Western Digital WD2500KS Caviar SE 250GB 7200RPM SATA2/300 16MB Cache - OEM


About the case, it only supports 1xAGP and 6xPCI slots, is this ok for my board, and will it fit into the box ok? The board has a pci Express slot, and im worried it wont have access to the openenings properly.   :'(

Thanks guys for some Nice advice.  :U Hopefully it'll be up and running soon, or ill be back here moaning about something gone terribly wrong  :lol

[asmfan]

Guys, i wonder if advertisement is allowed here?;)
Below i describe my preferences in Brands.
Mainboards - Asus, Gigabyte
CPU - AMD, Intel
Memory - Corsair, OCZ, Mushkin
Video - Sapphire, Gigabyte
HDD - Hitachi
Power supply - FSP

[Mark Jones]

This much with power supplies, go for a BIG one as they are far less prone to die on you. I currently use twn fan 500 watt power supplies in a number of boxes and they do last a lot longer.

Huch, it's true you don't want to over-stress a power supply. But also consider this: the cost of residential electricty here (rounded) is 7 cents ($0.07) per KW/h, so a single 0.5KW supply running 24h/7d will consume (0.5KW * 24h) = 12KW/h per day or (12KW/h * 30d) = 360KW per month. At $0.07/KWh that's $25.20 per month or $302.40 per year!

150W is really not good for much with modern hardware... you're looking at 250W minimum for almost anything now-a-days. Just take a quick flip through the detailed specs for newish CPUs (~100W) and graphics cards (varies a lot).

Yes indeed 150W is too low for a high-end board with fast CPU + GPU or whatnot. I was basing that from the PC's I used to build for industrial control applications where a basic Intel board was used with a newer FDB HD (they consume less power) and dial-up modem - that's it. The HD's were cloned and all configuration and whatnot was handled via VNC so no video adapter or other frills were needed, not even a case fan. It is still possible to build "workstations" this way (albeit, not using a 3GHz processor, but then when programming a simple controller in assembly who needs that?) :toothy A 150W supply in practice worked great in those, and at $0.05/kWh (industrial electricty rates) that costs only $5.40/mo.

[Roger]

Mark,

so a single 0.5KW supply running 24h/7d will consume (0.5KW * 24h) = 12KW/h per day

Only if it is being run at maximum rated output. If you only take 250W the supply will only need to draw 250W + losses. As typical efficiencies are about 70%, this is about 350W not 700W (the 500W you stated plus the 200W you forgot).

Furthermore the efficiency varies with load, tyipically being highest at less than full load and lower at full load and at light load. The difference may be as much as 10% - 20%. So running 500W PSUs at lower power outputs is not quite as good as it seems.

There are sugestions (on the internet) that efficiencies greater than 80% are on the way!

Regards Roger

[RedXVII]

Errmmmmm guys..... thats all very well. All I wanted to know was if my PSU 360W was enough.  :lol

Well, ive baught it now. How do you tell if the PSU is to low in wattage?