Windows 8 Metro, duh!!

[Bill Cravener]

I have been playing with Windows 8 Developer Preview for about a week now and I just don't get it. Does MS really believe that Windows 8 Metro which they hope will radically change how operating systems work be accepted by the worlds masses? I do not believe so. Even in the tablet market I think MS is offering too little, too late. Unless MS makes it more PC friendly I think it will be another Microsoft OS dud.

I've read many articles about the new Windows 8 face and several company watchers have wondered about the applicability of the Metro tiled interface on anything other than a tablet. Microsoft isn't so sure about it either it is now stating. I read where some MS officials have suggested that there may be some real changes on the Windows 8 usability front for those who prefer a keyboard and mouse. There better be if they want to sale it!

Some reassessment may be taking place because while the competition with tablets may be intense that is not the same for PC's. Forbes magazine made the statement that Windows 8 is "Dead Before Arrival". The research firm IDC told Computerworld this week; "Windows 8 will be largely irrelevant to the users of traditional PCs, and we expect effectively no upgrade activity from Windows 7 to Windows 8 in that form factor". Will business consider using Windows 8 for their fleet of PCs once that new operating system is released? Again I do not believe so.

In an IDC report on 'Top 10 system software prediction for 2012', the potential success of Windows 8 was given a poor evaluation by the global market research company. IDC pointed out that Windows 8's launch will be "largely irrelevant" for PC users and it might not capture the potential market MS seeks. IDC foresees that many enterprise users would also be a stumbling block. It is because Windows 8 looks very unfamiliar to a company's traditional work environment. The additional education to accustom corporate users to Windows 8's Metro interface would be necessary. According to IDC MS looks like it's trying to offer the best of both worlds for tablet and PC users and the end result will be desktop and laptop users seeing no benefit in upgrading to Windows 8 from a previous version.

Will the average Windows PC user jump to Windows 8 next year or snub the new OS as a platform geared more for mobile devices? Oh indeed, I do believe snub is the word here. Since the release of the Windows 8 Developer Preview in September MS has been battered by criticism from desktop users over the new Metro interface. In addition to those who just don't like the new look and feel (me included) many have complained that the touch based UI simply sucks when using a mouse and keyboard. The IDC believes MS's success with Windows 8 on tablets will be disappointing during 2012 and if it does not change some of its philosophy in how it is approaching the mobile market "it will not be successful in the longer term".

:tdown :tdown :tdown :tdown

[dedndave]

i already don't like it   :P
but - it is really hard to predict how the market will react
i thought that vista would never get off the ground
and, while it had it's problems, a lot of people wound up with it - some even like it

of course, MS tends to jam it down your throat
you can't buy a new computer with the old OS
this accounts for some of vista's success
but - it is the scary part of using windows, too
when they stop supporting windows 7....
well - they'll be on windows 10, by then   :red

[donkey]

Win7 will be supported well past Windows 10, Windows 8 will be released in 2012, Windows 9 is in development and is rumoured to be targeted for a November 2014 release. Windows 9, may see the beginnings of a managed OS from the HAL upwards, with the recent onslaught of information from Microsoft development about Midori it seems like a good bet. Windows 8 is the first salvo in the managed OS war, with the top level OS almost completely devoid of unmanaged access how long before another OS layer falls into the .NET/Sing# void. Talking with a few insiders I know there doesn't seem to be a threat to our programming except that we should "get in the habit of writing manifests", unmanaged code will require manifests though likely there will be a "default" one for most applications (sort of a compatibility mode), however, it is unlikely that any new features will be exposed to the unmanaged API.

I know that I sound a bit like a broken record on this but the more I examine the Win7 and Win8 headers the more I see a departure from the old philosophy at Microsoft to make the API as accessible to as many programming platforms as possible. Even as recently as Vista there seemed to be at least a token effort to expose interop layers for much of the managed interfaces. Windows 8 doesn't even try to hide the fact that Microsoft is no longer interested in the unmanaged world, it presents too many security risks that are too widely distributed to properly contain, with managed code you have only to change the JIT engine to patch a hole since all requests have to be made through it. Funniest thing I saw was a job offer by a developer looking for someone to do low level programming, C# and JAVA were required, C would be an asset though unnecessary, assembly wasn't even mentioned.

Ofcourse, we will eventually have someone like Iczelion figure out how we can continue to use assembly in the new managed world, they can't keep us down forever and we're not going anywhere.

[Bill Cravener]

This time around I think Microsoft has truely lost their minds. Metro just may be the brick that sinks its majority rule in the PC market.

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The Serious Flaw with Win 8 and Metro

Windows 8 Metro: Microsoft needs to let users opt-out

Windows 8 Adoption Predictions: Bad Times Ahead

5 deal-breaking flaws in Windows 8

Windows 8: A bad bet

[donkey]

From the developer community:

Windows 8 Developer Preview - CodeProject®

Microsoft seems to be stuck in the clouds and the web, they seem to be trying to push everyone into mobile device mode of working. They also seem to be turning their back on where they came from (just plain Windows) and introducing more layers and code compounded. It also seems like the Windows Media people have taken over the OS UI Building now.

If they market Widows 8 as is for the desktop/laptop, it will be a bigger disaster than Windows ME.

Win 8 Preview II - CodeProject®

So to conclude, if I want to play with this preview any further, then I had better start learning HTML. Again, WPF and Expression Blend 5.

From the looks of it, I won't be running Windows 8 on any of my systems besides the preview version, even though they did show a marked performance gain.

And that's from a VB.NET guy !

[hutch--]

I am pretty much of the view that the day Microsoft let go of Desktop Windows is the day they are finished. Vista was a big enough disaster that they just scraped through with after launching Win7, maybe someone at Microsoft secretly work for Apple ?

I know so many people who were API experts who just gave up in disgust and started writing HTML, JAVA and the like so they were no longer dependent on Windows to earn a living and the general development market no longer trust Microsoft after having been messed around for years with musical chairs in code systems, documentation and dirty tricks.

It seems to be a left over philosophy that they can just keep trashing their existing user base because there will always be another one coming up but with the rise of gadgetry like iPhones and so on, it ain't going that way any longer. The dark horse is Android which come at the right price and enough companies are picking it up and developing hardware for it.

Probably what Microsoft need to do is consolidate their PC market and try and make happy customers instead of trying to take over the world. Ugly reality is a good teacher here but one can only wonder if Microsoft can learn the lesson.

[sinsi]

I wonder whether the departure of Bill has made a difference? He stopped full-time in 2006 to concentrate on his foundation, maybe the ones left (like Ballmer) are getting lost.
Say what you want about Bill but he seemed to be pretty focussed, now MS are all over the place. I couldn't wait to get win7 but will stay away from win8 if it's like the preview.
Maybe we should wait for the official beta in a couple of months. Developer preview was to get info about the programming side, if we're lucky MS will take note  :bdg

[Bill Cravener]

Hi Edgar, Steve, sinsi,

I must admit I like the idea of using HTML5/JS/CSS to create Windows 8 Metro style apps seeing as I do have some talent in those markup languages but this Metro look though it may be fine for tablets or handhelds will never go over with PC users. That is unless MS offers a means of booting directly to the desktop that we have for two decades now come to believe in. If there was ever a fitting position for the phrase "shoot oneself in the foot", this is the one. What are they thinking? Do they honestly believe that their future success is in the greasy sliding fingers of handhelds?

[vanjast]

Looks like when MS have to compete on an even field, they're fairly useless at it... But we all knew that anyway.
The should rather push the PC market as tablets still will not have the power of PCs for a longgggg time.

:8)

[donkey]

Well, I think that the problem is that the Metro UI doesn't adapt well to desktops and laptops. About a year ago I got rid of my iPhone and switched to a Windows phone and I have to admit that I like the Windows phone a lot better. As far as a phone is concerned Windows Phone 7.5 is excellent, better than an iPhone with page after page of icons and easily beats out Android. However, I wouldn't want to see it on my laptop or desktop, I have Win7-x64 on both and I'm not likely to change that for Win8 since I can't exploit most of the new features with my current system and I'm quite happy with it the way it is.

[GregL]

I agree with Donkey, the Metro UI is great for phones and tablets, but not for desktops and laptops. I love my Windows Phone, I like my Windows 7 too.  I think they should separate the desktop/laptop and phone/tablet operating systems and develop them separately.  Combining them was a bad idea.

[vanjast]

I stand corrected  :P
I don't have a win-phone so wouldn't have an idea.. but nothing like stirring the pot to discover the brew  :green2
I'll look at that win-phone.. but I'm really 'allergic' to high level stuff.. :lol

[Ghostly]

Well I tried the Windows 8 developer preview and like many others I can't see metro making much of a splash on the desktop, to me it seemed like Windows 7 with some tacked on fullscreen web interface where you couldn't even shut down the apps. That said I don't subscribe to the notion that this will somehow be a disaster for Microsoft. They own the home desktop market and will continue to do so, hell not even the dud that was Vista was more than a little speedbump. Apple's with their OSX would be the only competitor with enough financial backing to potentially compete on the desktop but even they seem to have given up and is now focusing on laptops/phones/pads.

Only problem Microsoft may have is the enterprise sector where there seems to be no reason to upgrade to Windows 8 (unlike for home users who will get it when they buy a new computer), still I don't know how much of an impact Windows 7 has had in the enterprise (at work we've been Linux only for quite some time due to our customers being on Linux these days).

As for personal preference, for me Windows 2000 remains my favourite version of Windows (or any OS for that matter), same goes for Visual Studio 2003 for development.

[farklesnots]

I wonder whether the departure of Bill has made a difference? He stopped full-time in 2006 to concentrate on his foundation, maybe the ones left (like Ballmer) are getting lost.
Say what you want about Bill but he seemed to be pretty focussed, now MS are all over the place. I couldn't wait to get win7 but will stay away from win8 if it's like the preview.

I think you're right, sinsi. Bill started out as a programmer, Ballmer's whole career is as a marketing/management droid. To me that says it all.
I really liked XP, especially from SP2 on. I skipped Vista, and now have 64-bit Win7 as my main OS and I love it. What I've seen of Metro doesn't interest me at all.
As for Microsoft not wanting to deal with the security issues of native code (I hate the term "unmanaged", it sounds more like marketing-speak than an actual difference in technology), non-Microsoft systems seem to be finding ways to deal with it without forcing everything up another layer of abstraction.

[Bill Cravener]

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