The future of windowss assembly programming

[zemtex]

WPF (Windows presentation foundation), it seems like new layers just keep coming in and the older one is going out before I can even finish my GDI "tetris game" in assembly. What kind of future will it hold for win asm programmers?  :lol

[vanjast]

Like fashion... it will turn a full circle within 15-20 years.

The presentation will be different, but it will be the Same Old Shi..t
:bg

[zemtex]

My first dx9 asm program, I had coded a small include file for setting up a dx screen, draw loop and a few vertex buffers, but the time I had my program set up, a new version of direct was shipped. I couldn't even render a single frame before another direct was shipped.

I wonder what microsoft programmers eat for breakfast.

[Farabi]

My first dx9 asm program, I had coded a small include file for setting up a dx screen, draw loop and a few vertex buffers, but the time I had my program set up, a new version of direct was shipped. I couldn't even render a single frame before another direct was shipped.

I wonder what microsoft programmers eat for breakfast.

:lol Are you serious? Theyr programming syle is that bad?

[donkey]

Assembly programming is becoming increasingly irrelevant, even now it is little more than a platform to call libraries few of which are written in assembly and a good compiler can outperform an average assembly language programmer. That trend will continue until the use of assembly is relegated to older OSes running on older machines. Microsoft long ago decided to move away from the procedural model toward the class based object model of programming, something which assembly is not well suited for but we trudge along in anyway even though other languages handle it more elegantly. Even the class based model may be short lived as research into NLP (Natural Language Programming) moves forward, then the programmer will not even need any knowledge of objects or classes or even the most rudimentary programming skills to write a viable program. Anyone who can describe, in natural English (or other languages), what they want the computer to do will be able to write a program. It's still a ways off, but I expect that eventually we will see languages that process natural speech and build applications from that that are adaptive enough to allow the "programmer" to clarify and expand the functionality at need.

In my opinion that's the way it should be, a person should be able to instruct his computer to perform a task without having to have any knowledge about how it goes about it and the computer should be capable of extrapolating what is required to meet the needs of the user. I can't wait until I can have a conversation with my computer in which I can explain what I need it to do, it asks a few questions then sets about building the application.

And before anyone starts spouting the old "they have predicted assemblers death many times but it has never happened" stuff, it represents only a fraction of a percent of programming languages in use today and that number inexorably shrinks every year. I love assembly language, its my programming language of choice but it doesn't make me blind to the overall trend.

[dedndave]

that would really suck all the fun out of it
i write in assembler because it is a fun and interesting challenge   :U

[fearless]

Its interesting to think about may happen down the line. I read an article recently about facebook's new just in time compiler for php, which i think we will see more of in future. I can envisage a blending of the virtual machine with just in time compilers so they can be ran on any platform. And with the whole gadget/widget/app model that has come about recently with smartphones and tablets, i think this will spur this on.

Scripting of some sort will still be needed in future to drive the data models and application logic, perhaps will the likes of HTML5 and other conventions sitting on the top of the whole process, but as donkey said, the interface to all this in the future may well be the likes of apples siri voice technology or something similar that is expanded to provide that support and allow the just in time compilation and execution of an app that is defined by common tasks, providing the programmer a simple extension of their own logic. The NLP idea does make sense as a lot of programmers that use multiple languages probably already start designing with a pseudo code, and the NLP would be an evolution of this.

So i agree that the lower level stuff will most likely become less viable to use to implement in the various api layers that are adapted as we move towards this new future. But its still fun to program is asm :D

[Farabi]

I remember when I lear C++ it was so complicated, and there is lot of thing I need to remember, assember is pretty straight forward, it was just the instruction that are too much, so it is looks complicated, but after I get the logic, it was so easy.

[clive]

In my opinion that's the way it should be, a person should be able to instruct his computer to perform a task without having to have any knowledge...

No doubt resulting in a further separation between those who understand how things work, and those who don't, and an erosion of basic metacognition skills.

Assembler usage has been shrinking for a while, and the area's requiring high proficiency rather niche.

The trick is to know a lot of different languages, and when is the appropriate time to use each, or to look for other alternatives. People that know only one trick will just apply it to everything regardless of appropriateness, and will be left obsolete when everyone else moves onto something better or different.

Keep expanding your horizons and learn new things.

Consider where Microsoft is going with OS and Platforms.

Consider where their competition is going, and the more fractured landscape that is appearing now Microsoft isn't the only viable platform.

[clive]

I wonder what microsoft programmers eat for breakfast.

Supposedly their own dog food.

[donkey]

No doubt resulting in a further separation between those who understand how things work, and those who don't, and an erosion of basic metacognition skills.

Isn't that the whole point of computers in the first place, to perform tasks for you that you are unable due to knowledge or time to perform yourself ? I mean that's why we have them in the first place, I can only hope that we reach the goal of removing the need for any technical knowledge at all. The level of separation from the hardware grows every year because that's the end product that was promised by computers, it was never that everyone could understand the myriad combinations of Boolean gates, we were promised that we could ask it a question and get an answer.

[jj2007]

Unfortunately I have to admit that Edgar is right. The trend is going that direction.

However, Microsoft will continue to hate the word "legacy". In most enterprises, small or big, you will find a suite of self-coded products for doing production-critical things. Go into a travel agency, and look at their screen. Often enough, you still see a green-on-black DOS screen with cryptic info. That is stone age, but it lives side by side with speech recognition. And guess which of them works better, in the eyes of the share holder?

I have a dozen little helpers that make my life easier, some of them programmed in GfaBasic (defunct but mine works fine), others in MasmBasic. They do exactly what I need, and efficiently. Of course, I could get tidier interfaces with Visual Basic, and I have a pile of code in VBA, too. But I hate that object-oriented stuff, I want it straight.

The niche of assembler is shrinking, no doubt. But somebody has to write those fantastic C compilers, and my suspicion is that somebody still knows how to write assembler code. Folks, it is Sunday morning, nobody around in the Forum, except me, one new member, and 72 Guests.

Ever noticed how little time it takes to see your posts in Google? They treat this site as if it was CNN :bg

The future of windowss assembly programming
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[hutch--]

 :bg

I have been hearing "Oh Woe Is Me" about assembler programming for a very long time, in about 1994 Microsoft was telling us it was no longer needed yet 6 years later its part of VC/VS again, I wonder why ?

Is assembler specialised ? YES.
Is it a main stream language ? NO.
Will it ever be in any real hurry ? NO.
Does it appeal to the great unwashed ? NO.
Is it useful ? haha, depends on if you can write it or not.
If you can write it, is it useful ? Only you can tell and that is if it does the job for you.
Is assembler a "hobby" language ? If that is how you choose to write it.
Is assembler a "professional" language ? If that is how you choose to write it.

RE: bad assembler is slower than good (whatever), bad (whatever) is slower that good (whatever), you don't need to add assembler into the equation.

You will know when assembler language is no longer useful when Microsoft no longer need it, for all of the HOO HAA they still throw enough resource at it to keep it more or less up to date.

Would it be wise to hold your breath waiting for assembler programming to die off ? probably not.  :P

My own approach is that an assembler is like having a specialised spanner in your toolbox, if you need a hammer you don't reach for a specialised spanner but vice versa, if you need a specialised spanner, don't waste your time trying to hit it with a hammer.

[sinsi]

I think it's interesting that for ml64 they went back to the basics, not much higher level stuff.
Really though, what is ml used for now? Drivers I guess, but what else significant?

Assembler will be around for a long time because what you input is your output, no interpretation (except for high-level .IFs etc., but they are usually simple).
Even if Microsoft drop it, there are plenty more around, and let's face it - Windows programming is all about calling APIs to do the work.
Maybe COM and stuff make it harder but you can translate C code to asm, the other way is a lot harder. Someone needs to know the low level.

[oex]

Isn't that the whole point of computers in the first place, to perform tasks for you that you are unable due to knowledge or time to perform yourself ? I mean that's why we have them in the first place, I can only hope that we reach the goal of removing the need for any technical knowledge at all.

I hope that the requirement for humans to think and learn is never removed.... The very fact that there is a lack of jobs when there are so many such achievements unaspired to, so many linguistic concepts unknown by so many, shows a distinct lack of substance to the human race.... My life is about more than just ASM but I fell there is a responsibility for future generations to understand just how the AI works.... After all this is the POLITICS of the future!!!! Unfortunately I think the capitalist system misunderstands the term 'information is money' far too often.