NATO's dirty underwear.

[hutch--]

Having listened to all the spin and bullsh*t in the media about how NATO were only acting to protect civilian on humanitarian grounds in Libya, we have now seen the crude and clumsy murder of poor old Gaddafi broadcast around the world and now in Sirte they are finding mass graves of murdered Gaddafi loyalists and it has all been made possible by NATO fighting a war for Al Queda in Libya.

There is little doubt that NATO is a ghost of the cold war era and without the Russian to act as the boogie-man they are close to useless in terms of world peace but it has not stopped them from acting like an international terrorist organisation, smashing their way through Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and now Libya.

Lady Macbeth:
Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!—One; two: why, then 'tis time to do't.—Hell is murky.—Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our pow'r to accompt?—Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him?

One can but wonder if Sarkozy and Cameron have problems sleeping at night but it won't stop them from passing the buck for the results that they put in place by fighting a war for Al Queda in Libya.  :P

[Astro]

The UN is a scam. You only need to look at how they operate to see that any claim of "impartiality" is like pointing at the sky and saying what a nice shade of pink it is, at midday.

[asmGhost]

Having listened to all the spin and bullsh*t in the media about how NATO were only acting to protect civilian on humanitarian grounds in Libya, we have now seen the crude and clumsy murder of poor old Gaddafi broadcast around the world and now in Sirte they are finding mass graves of murdered Gaddafi loyalists and it has all been made possible by NATO fighting a war for Al Queda in Libya.

There is little doubt that NATO is a ghost of the cold war era and without the Russian to act as the boogie-man they are close to useless in terms of world peace but it has not stopped them from acting like an international terrorist organisation, smashing their way through Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and now Libya.

Lady Macbeth:
Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!—One; two: why, then 'tis time to do't.—Hell is murky.—Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our pow'r to accompt?—Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him?

One can but wonder if Sarkozy and Cameron have problems sleeping at night but it won't stop them from passing the buck for the results that they put in place by fighting a war for Al Queda in Libya.  :P

You left out Obama, how come?
He is just as culpable as Sarkozy and Cameron.
Truth is most people here would have preferred to have stayed out of it and let Qaddafi and Al Qaeda fight it out.
The great lie is that they are "freedom fighters", Obama will be gone after the next election, his poll numbers are poor and sinking fast. His legacy will be creating at least 2 if not 3 more Iran's for the world to deal with.
The whole world will be paying for his ineptitude for years.

[hutch--]

Ghost,

Probably because Robert Gates gave him some good advice and kept Americans out of a mess like that. The US did support NATO with hardware but it looked like a half hearted "keep 'em happy" style of contribution. They may have learnt the lesson after supporting Al Queda in Afghanistan against the Russians only to have them turn on them after the Russians were driven out. They were just known by another name then, Mujahadeen.

[dedndave]

they are just stroking each others johnson - lol
they want to be seen as supportive of whoever comes out on top

you see a lot of this in recent international politics - as well as in day-to-day business
there is no crystal ball to tell them how things will turn out, so they try to cover as many bases as practical
very much related to that other thread started by Farabi   :P

[oex]

they are just stroking each others johnson - lol

Exactly what I was thinking as I got to your post though not in such colorful terms :lol

Playing "good cop, bad cop" I was thinking.... Both bent

[Bill Cravener]

, Obama will be gone after the next election, his poll numbers are poor and sinking fast.

I had to giggle at that comment. As much as I am dissatisfied with President Obama (he's too willing to compromise with the right) I predict he will win come next election. There are many reasons why I believe this, for example look at what the right is offering the voter. The GOP field is exceedingly weak and every one of the candidates has their own electability problems. You can't beat somebody, especially a sitting president, with a nobody. I mean really, the GOP crop isn't even very appealing to Republicans as witnessed by the revelation that only one in five big GWB supporters have contributed to any of the current candidates. There is an old saying in politics, "you can't beat someone with a no-one". As of now none of the GOP potential candidates has shown the ability to capture the nation's fancy. In fact all of them are total turn-offs. The rights insistent that this country is a christian nation will stop them from voting for Romney who believes in Joseph Smith as his godly prophet and the centrists think Perry is too much of a god fearing person to be tolerated. Add to all that the fact that it will be very difficult to oust an incumbent without a charismatic smart candidate who isn't a captive of the tea baggers or the religious fanatics. I mean after all, the tea baggers are the best thing going for Obama as they will pull the eventual GOP nominee too far to the right for the majority of voters to stomach.



Steve,

With regards to NATO. NATO was, in its day, the prime example of a collective security alliance. In 2011 the end of NATO as a collective security alliance, I believe, is seen in four events; the intervention in Libya, the downsizing of proposed US ballistic missile defense systems in Eastern Europe, ISAF withdrawal from Afghanistan and the creation of the Visegrad Group.  NATO's role as the central trans-Atlantic organization with a truly united purpose and solidarity among all of the allies is crumbling like a dried up peace of old toast.

[hutch--]

Bill,

That actually makes sense, NATO is a cold war relic that has not had any real purpose since the end of the old Soviet Union. As far as i can tell the US is both downsizing its military costing and distributing the load financially and personel wise to other allied countries in what will probably be a far more efficient and cost effective way to protect the US. In OZ we provide the "Air Sea Gap" to protect allied assetts here in OZ at our own cost as it serves our purpose as well. Apart from the Kiwis who we play football and cricket against, we have no recognisable threat and this is in part becuase of air space control above northern Australia.

I would imagine that the US has similar deals with other countries around the world which is both more effective and cost efficient than the old system of having to man and control massive areas of sea and land.

[dedndave]

obama is doing as well as can be expected, considering the mess he was left with
i think most americans are smart enough to know he inherited a lot of problems
personally, i can see that anyone who gets the office has an impossible task facing them
unfortunately, the president doesn't really have as much power as one might think
he can shape policy and give direction, but the poluted congress runs the show

[anunitu]

Even the fact that the people are disapointed with Obama,it comes down to the lesser of two evils argument. When I see and hear what the Republicans propose,I can imagine what they would do to our Country. I like Obama,even though he isn't pushing hard enough for things this Country needs. Fixing the infrustruture,so the roads are safe is a no brainer,as is understanding that the Oil for energy is a dwindlng resource..Oil WILL run out. Tesla actually said this back in the 20's,and he worked on solar power back then also.

Tesla was one of the people that allowed us to have the Tech we take for granted today.

[dedndave]

it doesn't matter who the president is
it doesn't matter if he is black or white or fricken purple with polkadots
it doesn't matter if he is a republican or a democrat
it doesn't matter if he is a she   :P

you are going to get the same thing, no matter who it is
things are so screwed up, that no one person can fix it

[anunitu]

I sometimes feel exactly like that Dave. When Money is really the deciding factor in who gets elected,the people are being fed a lie that we determine who runs the country. Sometimes when I see eather party rambling on about something,a vision of someone raping someone else,as they tell the raped person that they were only making Sweet sweet love to them...

Kind of like the idea we(polititions) are only doing things to protect you when we take away your rights.

Also concider right wing religious zelots believe Jesus will take us away when we screw things up so bad there is no solution.

if you believe you have a get out of jail free card,nothing matters.