About Phalestine and Israel

[Magnum]

 A good old fashioned pillow fight should be sufficient to solve the problem.  :-)

[hutch--]

I am still of the view that disarming both sides is the way to go then they can settle their grievances by throwing stones at each other. No matter what the history, a desert at the eastern end of the Mediterranean is just not important enough to keep destabilising  the rest of the world. If you cannot find a completely unaligned nation as peacekeepers then apply the same embargo on both sides, arms, money, food etc .... See how long they both want to keep arguing. The sheer fatigue of throwing enough stones would do the job, Israelis would end up eating felafel sandwiches and Palestinians would end up eating Kosher meat pies.  :bg

[dedndave]

Andy's idea sounds like more fun to watch - lol

[Farabi]

Honestly, Im afraid to USA. Iraq war happened when I was on Hi-School, something that I never expected. And then iraq attacked. At first I dont care about that. When I was on Hi-School I dont believe God, so I dont care about it. But then everybody arround me talking about that. As a muslim, at least on my ID card, I was convinced to be a soldier after I regain my faith, but then I lost my faith again. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol all the time.

Like I said, I dont care about the war outside my country, I watched it like wathing a movie. When the troops destroyed a mosque, I dont care. But then, I realized, I could be draged into wars. So I decided to studying all of the book that caused all of this, the quran and the bible. Now, I used it against both side to avoiding war. Muslims called me "American Dog", "Jews slave", "Liberalism follower" etc. I dont care. And I'll keep doing it.

[dedndave]

Onan - i think if i were in your shoes.....

1) i'd pretend to be muslim until i could get my ass out of there - otherwise, you may not make it out alive
2) i'd get my ass out of there as soon as possible - you have a degree and programming background - shouldn't be too hard

[hutch--]

Onan,

I would be careful about being involved in too much of this debate as it may put you at great risk. It is a complex issue that is based on the history of the Palestine area and it has as much to do with money, ww2 atrocities against the Jews and political influence of western countries in the middle east. The source of the problem is that all 3 Abrahamic religions have claim on Jerualem to the exclusion of each other but the area has an unhappy history in the latter half of the 20th century and great injustices have been done by both sides against the populations of respectively Palestine and Israel.

You are on reasonably safe ground by supporting a free independent Palestine, they are decent honourable people who deserve an independent country of their own and you have no reason to take sides between Palestinians and Israelis when the proferred end result is a peaceful and honourable settlement between them. The leadership of both Israel and Palestine have both been the problem that has produced the situation that exists today but both people can live together in peace apart from their leadership.

This allows you to say that you support the Palestinian people and that they should have a country of their own without having to take sides on political or religious grounds and that should silence the people who criticise you for what you think. We don't want to lose you over something that does not effect people who live in Indonesia.

[xanatose]

If a person was being abused as a child, does it justifies the person to abuse children?

No.

Nor the Jews being victimized on WW2 by Germans justify Israel Victimizing Palestinians.

When in 1898 the USA invaded Puerto Rico, many people lost their land and (because of the imposed mono-cultive) many people learn what hunger of misery was like, including some of my ancestors. Will that justify me to get and AK-47 and start killing Americans (even tough  I am an American citizen by a law imposed to get cannon fodder from Puerto Rico)?

No.

Whatever happen to my ancestors do not justify me killing people that have nothing to do with it (even if their ancestors did mess up with my ancestors).

[dedndave]

now if you can explain that to the arabs and isrealis

[xanatose]

now if you can explain that to the arabs and isrealis

Is more about their leaders than their population. The tribe mentality of US vs THEM.

BTW: The Israel/Palestinians situation is easy to change. Make the USA stop giving money and weapons to Israel.  That way, they will need to economize resources and weapons. And besides, they still have not answered for the sinking of the USS Liberty. Instead of bombing them for that, the USA decided to give them more armament and money.