How Bad Is It ???

[GregL]

Bill,

I agree with you, I think the Republican's attempts to eliminate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid is criminal.  Too many elderly folks depend on them.  They should not even be on the table.

[Bill Cravener]

Hi Greg,

Republicans continue to oppose repealing oil and gas subsidies, removing tax loopholes for big corporations, letting the Bush tax cuts expire, and any other form of revenue Democrats have suggested like taxing million and billionaires more. Raising taxes in a weak economy, they argue, is unthinkable even if conservative patriarch Ronald Reagan did just that numerous times.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) in a May 5th appearance on MSNBC said (as many other Repukes also have stated), "The place where you've got to get revenues has to come from the middle class," saying the poor needed to understand "that there's a civic duty on the part of every one of us to help this government to, uh, to be better." On the Senate floor July 7, Hatch said the poor "need to share some of the responsibility" for deficit reduction.

Phuking morons!! :tdown

[Bill Cravener]

[rant on]

The Republicans goal is to cut benefits for the elderly and to cut back the services that the government provides to we the people. The far right in the House decided to use the debt limit as a hostage to continue their decades long quest to eliminate Social Security and Medicare. The Republican plan is to slash the safety net that's been put in place since the 1930s which will then give politicians more monies to make wars, more tax cuts for the rich and bailouts for the bankers. The Bush tax cuts for the rich appears nowhere in any discussion by them bastard Republicans, despite the fact that eliminating them would go most of the way towards resolving our debt crisis. We are still fighting three wars and the defense budget remains mostly untouchable. Let's face up to the facts, eight years of Bush, the Republican party, and with the help of Osama-bin-laden, have destroyed this once great country. Add to that bunch of morons them g*d damn tea-baggers!!

[/rant off]

[GregL]

Bill,

I don't disagree with anything you said.  I'm afraid the tea-baggers and the Republicans are going to crash our economy (what's left of it) in the name of reducing the debt.  Which is worse?  I say crashing our economy is far worse.

[dedndave]

i can see a bright side to all this...
if the US govt defaults, the banks won't lend them any more money
that's a good thing - they should have stopped long ago
if the govt's credit rating goes to shit, it will (for the first time, perhaps) reflect a realistic state of affairs

[Bill Cravener]

Oh but it burns my ass Dave, I've been paying into SS since I was 12 years old and had to get a SS card to work for my father. My father died when he was 56 and received not one cent of all that money he paid into SS. My mother died when she was 60 and never got one cent of SS. That's just an example of the millions who have died without receiving any of their SS monies back. Social Securities trust fund is a separate and independent entity and should not be included in this countries national debt deficit. Now I'll be damned if that's going to happen to me. I've been paying in being self-employed 100% of my SS payments for near 48 years unlike those who are employed where their employer pays half (I was employed for 8 years of that time). Like that nut in Norway I'm just liable to lose my mind if I don't get some of my SS monies back before I kick the bucket. Who knows what I might do in two more years when I can start collecting if its not there, I'm certain of one thing, it won't be pretty!

[dedndave]

truthfully, i have been hearing for years that the SS money wouldn't be there when i reach 62
i plan this way...
it probably won't be there
if it is, i can be pleasantly surprised
good chance i may be a UK citizen by then, anyways - lol

[GregL]

i can see a bright side to all this...

You sound like one of the tea-baggers.

[dedndave]

no tea, here
not that that party actually has any relationship to the Boston Tea Party
they selected that name as a marketing ploy, of course

i always try to find the bright side of everything
it has kept me going through the tougher parts of my life

[baltoro]

Steve Martin had a funny joke on his twitter page (what's the past tense of twit ?)

I have decided to default on my lunch check today.

[xanatose]

The FED admited that they are as federal as federal express: http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/ID/217869
Basically they say that they are not required to comply with the Freedom of Information Act, because they are not a federal agency but a private organization. Thus finally admiting that they are as federal as "Federal Express" :)

My point is, that it makes sense that decisions are made in favor of that is beneficial to banks instead of the general economy or the people. Contrary to what the constitution states, the printing of money is not controlled by congress but by a 12 banks cartel. Add Golman Sachs to the equation, as they have a lot of people in key positions in the USA government.  The dollar is not controlled neither by the state, nor by the people of the USA. But by parties whose primary interest is the wellbeing of their respective banks. Is irrelevant the wellbeing of the people or of the state.

Could the state do something about it. Yes, if they had a president with guts ala Andrew Jackson. He faced a similar dilema of a monopolized banking sistem. http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/andrewjackson
The solution, audit the FED, see how deep the rabit hole goes, and eliminate it. It will be bad at first (as we eliminate the fantasy and face the reality), but at the end we would end with a clean economy and a state that actually represents the people of the USA instead of 12 banks.

[clive]

You sound like one of the tea-baggers.

The irony is that you'll be the one taking it in the arse.

[dedndave]

i am not sure if that's directed at me or Greg, Clive   :P
but, i think we should all be prepared for a nice cold enema

[clive]

i am not sure if that's directed at me or Greg, Clive

It was directed at those using the term.

Dave, you at least haven't pulled to debate down to juvenile name calling, and menacing. It's no wonder US politics are so toxic.

I think all US tax payers are going to take a pounding. This will be especially so if you get a national sales tax, and European style gas taxes. It's nice to assume someone else should pay more tax, but the reality is that additional costs will just be passed down the chain. The companies will just sit on their cash, and not hire, so long as there is uncertainty. There are plenty of companies looking to move out of IL, or get sweet heart deals to stay. I'm all for removing the bloat and loop-holes in the tax code, and providing a uniform playing field, the government doesn't need to play favorites with the rich, or specific companies.

If the Bush tax cuts are revoked, all tax payers will be paying more, which is pretty much why Obama hasn't done so to date. Now I'm sure you could cherry pick which ones to revoke, but the tax code need significant trimming all around, to remove the rules/opportunities for clever accountants to find loop-holes.

[dedndave]

yah - what really needs to be cut is govt spending
we all know that isn't likely, leaving the working man to pick up the tab
no matter what happens, the government isn't going to fix itself - this is what we all hope for
where i may disagree with you, Clive, is that it will hurt all the "little people" around the world - not just US tax payers