How Bad Is It ???

[baltoro]

For concerned American citizens, there has been alot of exciting news articles lately about the U.S. Debt Celing.
So, for all you statistics geeks,...here is a selction of data-rich websites concerning the United States Federal Debt.   

U.S. Federal Deficits, Presidents, and Congress, Stephen Bloch
History of the U.S. Public Debt, Wikipedia
National Debt by U.S. Presidential Terms, Wikipedia
Historical Annual Debt Outstanding, U.S. Treasury Department

Here is the Federal Reserve's Statistical Release: Flow of Funds Accounts of the United States, June 2011
The estimated population of the United States is 310,957,012, so each citizen's current share of the Federal Debt debt is $46,172.95. (from: U.S. National Debt Clock)

...I'm sending my $46,172.95 to Hutch for his renovation project, earmarked for Dungeon Enhancements,...as a protest against economic tyranny. :eek

[clive]

I'm not sure why we even have a ceiling seeing as every time we approach it they just raise it.

The rating agencies should probably downgrade the debt anyway as I don't see it getting paid off, as no one in power wants to take ownership of the problem, and kick it another decade down the road. They need to take control of this, and EVERYONE should feel the pain, I don't see any reason to exclude the greedy baby-boomer generation who voted in these ass-clowns and the policy and promises that are unsustainable.

[baltoro]

CLIVE,...yes,...so reasonable,...I think we'd all agree with that,...

What has always amazed me about the United States, is that there really is no reliable long range planning. Being a global superpower, both militarily and economically, you'd think mathematical modeling and analysis of global strategic resources and economic processes would be a highly developed and accurate science. Instead, we get just the opposite, we're overloaded with useless information, and wildly miscalculated projections, and, naturally, the general public has a well-deserved mistrust of government data and forecasts.

If we did have a sound modeling and forecasting capability, most citizens would be aware that military spending is a huge contributor, and, in all likelihood, the primary driver, of our current debt overload. Here is a paper that comes to the same conclusion: Keynesian Economics After All. The authors summarize: "In conclusion, we have demonstrated, that the main long-term driving force of the US economy through the entire history of the USA has been massive public investments in the private sector, financed by significant increases in public debt, during times of war."

And, what's more,...even in our democracy, we don't have the option of voting on this critical issue.

[FORTRANS]

I'm not sure why we even have a ceiling seeing as every time we approach it they just raise it.

Hi,

   According to a radio story today, it was to force attention
to the debt and have it debated.  We have been doing this
idiocy since 1917?

Phooey,

Steve N.

[hutch--]

 :bg

There IS a solution, get rid of the Federal Reserve ! Come back to the Constitution where Americans are back in control of their own money instead of foreign bankers.

The current situation is akin to Gaddafi being in control of French finances, Hitler tightening the purse strings of the UK during WW2 or to more accurately fit the American situation, the interest rates that foreign bankers tried to charge the Union under Abe Lincoln early in the civil war.

[Bill Cravener]

I don't see any reason to exclude the greedy baby-boomer generation who voted in these ass-clowns and the policy and promises that are unsustainable.

Right, blame it all on us greedy baby boomers. I was agreeing with you up until you made that smartass remark, and coming from someone who hides behind a silly anonymous handle. Its folks like you I'd just love to meet face to face and then see how brave you are in making a statement like that. Though you may live here I'd bet money you where not born in this country. I've been paying my share for over 47 years, how about you mister clive?

[dedndave]

...and coming from someone who hides behind a silly anonymous handle.

i think that's his first name   :bg
no, really
it's a pretty common name in the UK

[Bill Cravener]

Hi Dave,

That figures. It's funny how big a set of balls can grow when one hides their identity. :bg

[Bill Cravener]

:bg

There IS a solution, get rid of the Federal Reserve ! Come back to the Constitution where Americans are back in control of their own money instead of foreign bankers.

Steve, I'm all for that buddy. :bg

Here's an interesting break down of the US debt. It's the Bush era tax cuts that have done us in, that and them damn wars. I don't think anyone can be blamed for the economic downturn, in my life time its not the first.

[baltoro]

You know,...this whole debt ceiling issue is ridiculous. The Republicans are just creating a little drama at the public's expense. Clearly, they don't have any viable solutions to the problem. This is why allowing the rich to control the rest of America is so shortsighted,...They create a circus over something that is easily resolved, with legislation,...and, the underlying structural problems that gave birth to this mess remain the same. American politics has become a wasteland,...a black hole,... :eek

And, Hutch,... :eek

...There IS a solution, get rid of the Federal Reserve,...

Excellent,...and, VERY funny. I'm beginning to really enjoy Australian humor,...

[clive]

Right, blame it all on us greedy baby boomers.

Indeed, a very large group who have promised themselves a whole bunch of entitlements, and have paid in fractions of a dollar on the amounts they will get out. It's particularly aimed at those who have not made preparations for retirement beyond that provided by the state, or have been generally feckless.

You've paid in, I've paid in, but guess what, there isn't a lock-box or a pot-of-gold there, it's all gone right back out paying current recipients. The best you've got is a bunch of IOU's in a box, and a whole bigger box with IOU's to China, et al.

I've got code in MASM32, I'm hardly hiding. It's not as if I'm calling myself "Neo" FFS.

Anyone paying tax benefited from Bush-Cuts, in the same way we all got to keep more of our money with Obama's payroll tax cuts. You've got a bunch of stupid wars. My point is we all need to be paying more in taxes, get rid of "loop holes" where people can interpret the tax laws and move things in their favour, get rid of "tax credits" where you get money back from other tax payers. You need a flatter tax system, with no BS, and no deductions that allow for these loop hole interpretations. If everyone has skin in the game, they'd be a lot more engaged, and less likely to vote themselves more cheese. Obama has a very odd idea about where the Middle-Class ends, and the Rich begin.

[clive]

I'd just love to meet face to face and then see how brave you are in making a statement like that.

I'm likely to grind-your-gears with my views, and that's Ok, everyone has their own viewpoint coloured by their differing life experiences, if you have to be menacing to sustain your viewpoint you've already pretty much lost credibility. If you're out Chicago way, I'll buy you a beer.

Perhaps we can just agree that this whole thing is a Ponzi Scheme, the early participants will do pretty good, the rest of us will probably just get screwed. Paying more into the scheme isn't going to fix it's inequities.

You're into it for 47 years, I'm about 20 years behind you.

[Bill Cravener]

. . the rest of us will probably just get screwed.

Ain't that a bitch! I'll get mine but this greedy baby boomer could care less about you getting yours. :bg

You're into it for 47 years, I'm about 20 years behind you.

Just a kid are ya? :bg

[Bill Cravener]

I'm likely to grind-your-gears with my views, and that's Ok, everyone has their own viewpoint coloured by their differing life experiences,

Coloured? I was correct, you were not born here were you? As to life experiences, you've got a ways to go to catch up to mine pal. :bg

[clive]

Just a kid are ya? :bg

And the kids get to pick your old peoples home for you, old man.