GOP blocks free trade pact

[anunitu]

It has been speculated that the Republicans are trying to tank the economy for political gain. I would think this was insane but for this latest bit from the Republicans.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2011/07/02/republicans_block_free_trade_pacts/

To go against trade pacts, sounds like isolationism in some form, a very bad move in an economy like this.

Perhaps the U.S. will end up a third world country just to best Obama..............

[dedndave]

that seems rather stupid - lol
the republicans are the ones with the most to lose
if the house of cards crashes, all their nice dollar bills will become TP on the outhouse walls
of course, most of them have large amounts of gold and have a lot of money in off-shore accounts

still - when all the apples have worms in them, the ones with the most apples eat more worms

[clive]

And why exactly do you need these "retraining" programs anyways?

Because these "free" trade programs tend to be asymmetrical, favouring the export of jobs from the US, and favouring the import of goods from these countries.

How's that NAFTA thing working out on the Southern boarder? I guess we have those asinine programs exporting guns to Mexican drug lords.

Sorry, but I'd rather buy a truck/car built in Michigan. Not because I'm for protectionism, but that the build quality and durability has been better, and I think having well paying manufacturing jobs in the US is better for the country, than shipping our future to India, China, Columbia, et al.

It's about time the politicians voted on single topic bills

[hutch--]

I think Clive is on the money here, a multi-national corporate sector playing on the exchange rate who are in turn manpiulated by the much larger sovereign wealth funds of China, India and th like. Its only a sign of age that I own things made in the US, my Lincoln welder made in Ohio and a heap of American made hand tools, Crescent, Wiss and so on. Much the same with the Bosch and Metabo power tools I own made in either Germany or Scintilla made in Switzerland. I own a couple of Japanese made Hitachi power saws but nowdays its hard to find anything not made in China, even my recently aquired Gerni high pressure cleaner is made in China now.

As soon as a company moves offshore, I stop buying their things, if I want Chinese made tools I buy them from a supplier that sells Chinese brands. Effectively we have a world economy designed to trash the western economies based on a market controlled exchange rate, kill off the industry of western countries, PHUK the balance of payments of that country and progressively drain the money out of it paying for imports.

[Bill Cravener]

I see the manufacturing tide slowly turning as China struggles to meet its rapidly growing energy needs. There are a variety of factors driving the shift back to the USA including rising wages in parts of Asia, surging fuel prices, and the complexities of transporting goods across the immense Pacific.

For example; Master Lock, General Electric Co and Boeing Co are a growing group of US companies that are boosting production at their US factories due to our advancements in automation. The USA's growing advancement in automation is to the point where we can produce a product much faster then the Chinese is able to and as it is always pursued in manufacturing fewer employees produce a complete product at less cost more profit.

Master Lock produces 24,000 locks a day here in the US with about one-sixth the number of workers needed by the Chinese and rival suppliers. Yep, I believe much of manufacturing will eventually come back to the US, though it may take many years.

[FORTRANS]

Hi,

   Was listening to a story on how large appliances may come back due to
the high cost of transport and rising wages in China.  Not to mention some
~unrest and labor troubles.  In one area they put up a factory a day for
the last four years (IIRC, somesuch similar) so there are thousands of
factories in one area.  And now if a worker asks for a pay increase, if they
don't give it to them, they can go next door if they have any needed
skills.  So now, they are building factories out in the boonies were they
are the only option.  Makes you wonder when they will run out of serfs
and have to pay real wages to menial labor.  One of the Chinese said
they were farming stuff out to Vietnam and losing low-end jobs.

Cheers,

Steve N.

[donkey]

Sorry, but I'd rather buy a truck/car built in Michigan. Not because I'm for protectionism, but that the build quality and durability has been better, and I think having well paying manufacturing jobs in the US is better for the country, than shipping our future to India, China, Columbia, et al.

Gotta love the Dodge 318, the engine that runs forever. Even though I've put a lot of sweat equity into my 1993 Dakota, it still runs great after 18 years and I wouldn't give it up for anything. Granted its gas mileage is horrible and the back seat is a little constricted but I have gone through 3 other vehicles since I bought the Dakota and it just keeps rolling along, my 2002 Toyota Tercel died a painful death about a year ago and I decided no more, I'll just drive the old Dodge. I would never buy anything but a Dodge truck (well maybe a GMC Sierra) and only one made at the Warren Truck plant, the Nissans and Toyotas are nice if you're looking for a pavement princess but nothing outworks a good American made truck.

[vanjast]

From what I understand about goods coming out of China, is that there are 3 or so catagories:

1) Cheap junk and sh1t quality
2) Better quality and more expensive
3) Good quality and at the same price of home made goods..

People generally like quality.. so make it at home. For mass produced cheap stuff, China is a good option.

[KD8COO]

Yep, I believe much of manufacturing will eventually come back to the US, though it may take many years.

Perhaps not as many years as you think.  It's leveling off much quicker than I expected...

[Bill Cravener]

Perhaps not as many years as you think.  It's leveling off much quicker than I expected...

Well, when you're getting old like me 3 to 5 years is many!  :bg

[KD8COO]

Gotta love the Dodge 318, the engine that runs forever. Even though I've put a lot of sweat equity into my 1993 Dakota, it still runs great after 18 years and I wouldn't give it up for anything. Granted its gas mileage is horrible and the back seat is a little constricted but I have gone through 3 other vehicles since I bought the Dakota and it just keeps rolling along, my 2002 Toyota Tercel died a painful death about a year ago and I decided no more, I'll just drive the old Dodge. I would never buy anything but a Dodge truck (well maybe a GMC Sierra) and only one made at the Warren Truck plant, the Nissans and Toyotas are nice if you're looking for a pavement princess but nothing outworks a good American made truck.

That's quite interesting.  Exactly the opposite of my experience for '90's through early 2000's vehicles.  I'm a firm believer in buying as local as possible, right up until the point that quality becomes a major concern.  I don't know anybody that's had a Dodge in that range that's been happy.  They've all been quite literally rolling (well, the few that can still move under their own power) heaps of junk after just a few short years, while ancient Toyotas keep right on working.  Very strange that our experiences would be so dramatically different!  The last couple of model years though, I truly believe that the American car companies have overall quality at least as good as the foreign cars.  I may finally be able to buy that Mustang or Camaro that I want, and have the reliability to actually make it to work every day too!  :-)

Unfortunately, there's still some (common elsewhere) things that the American truck makers could do that would make a dramatic difference, yet they choose not to for some reason (cost?).  We've got a nice new Ford heavy duty work truck that looks like it's going to rapidly turn into a rust pit.  This is the model that's supposed to be good for driving through anything, etc.  Yet, the rear wheel arch area has neither any sort of liner, nor even under coating!  The structural and sheet metal is all just hanging out there with just the standard base coat!  A few rock chips and it's already on the way to rust city just after the first Winter!  Contrast with some foreign designs I've seen that use 2 layers of sheet metal with tar in between, undercoating on the outside, AND a plastic shield (with drains)...  Now those can make it a decade before requiring work!

[hutch--]

KD,

Do you live in an area where salt is used on the roads in winter ? I remember seeing a few Benz cars imported from Europe for spares that had the complete bottom rusted out of them.

[KD8COO]

KD,

Do you live in an area where salt is used on the roads in winter ? I remember seeing a few Benz cars imported from Europe for spares that had the complete bottom rusted out of them.

Salt by the truckload...  Some neighboring areas use sand too.  So, for vehicles without a good rubberized undercoating, you go drive out of town, get the paint sandblasted off the bottom of your car, then come back and get it covered in salt and you've got rust holes in a couple years.  :-)

[Bill Cravener]

Same here, if you don't protect a vehicle with a protective under coating in PA it's a rust bucket in 5 years or less. We also have lots of road kill (deer, possum, raccoon, skunks, groundhogs, etc) because they are drawn to the layer of salt that accumulates along the berm of our roads.

[clive]

Perhaps not as many years as you think.  It's leveling off much quicker than I expected...

Some how I don't expect the TV and home appliance business to be coming back.

What desperately needs to be exported to China is Unions, not the bloated model we have now (benefiting leadership), but the original industrial revolution ones (benefiting workers). The new "Mill" is the Apple/Foxconn factory and the de-humanizing conditions they represent. No doubt Steve Jobs is getting a visit from the ghosts of mill owners past in a Dorian Gray type way. Karma's a bitch.